Advice please!

[justilou]

I have moved to Holland from Australia. We love it here, but have moved into a row of attached houses with long, thin back gardens. On one side we have neighbours with three kids who are really, really intrusive. While I understand that there are language barriers, the youngest who is 5 (same as my b/g twins) kicks, scratches, pinches and screams at my kids. Not acceptable - The middle child who is 7 (Same as my eldest) is really precocious - is obsessed with my daughter's pocket money which goes missing EVERY time she's here, and she lies about taking it. She rings the doorbell twenty times when she wants to come in, and is basically a nasty piece of work. The eldest who is 8 or 9 has learning disabilities, and is the nicest one - HOWEVER...... If we want our front window open to let in a breeze, they stare in with their mouths open, ask what we're doing, what we're eating, what we're watching on tv, etc... If we leave the front door open for five minutes, they wander through our house unasked. (We don't leave it open at all anymore) If we are out in the back garden, they constantly shout at us - nothing offensive, but constantly requiring attention. They will shout for my kids even when mine are inside. They jump on their trampoline, or play on their swings, shouting comments about every jump or swing, expecting us to watch them and get involved. One of them shouted my eldest daughter's name for two hours the other day. Drives her nuts. Let me make this clear - IGNORING THEM SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK, AND NEITHER DO BRUSQUE ANSWERS. I have made it clear to the parents that I hate it, but they minimise the intrusion. Any ideas on speaking to the kids themselves? No matter what we are doing, they repeatedly ask what we're doing and want to get involved. I get that they are just kids, but mine don't like them, and neither do I. HELP!!!

It seems like you've already exhausted all of the obvious solutions. Shall have a think and

remove battery from doorbell
higher fence?

a sharp 'no' i guess.....sometimes you have to get a bit scary.

How long have you been there? Is it perhaps a bit of fascination with the new people "from somewhere else"?

Even so I can understand why you find this annoying. The parents really should listen to you and not play it down.
I know you have said you have ignored ect, but when I had problem child like this, I had to do almost a "controlled crying" for dodgey neighbours!!

Took the doorbell out, kept windows and doors shut, never ever let them in, it took weeks but they gave up eventually, they still come back every holiday and I do the same, they give up after a few days now rather than weeks!! Its not fair but I have found that children like this tend to have parents who know full well what they are up to, and let them carry on because it keeps them out the way. So there isnt much else you can do.

Id tell the children to be quiet and that you and your children dont want to play so can they please leave you alone. If they refuse speak to the parents and suggest that if things dont improve you will make a complaint to the council

Can you turn it round? You go to their house and look through the windows. Shout their names while you are in the garden and pinch something precious from the sticky fingered one.
You do have my sympathy, IME, Dutch parents are much more liberal with their children than us uptight Brits.

Oh poor you - how terribly frustrating! Yes, how long have you lived there - it could well be just a fascination for new people from abroad. Other than that, you may have to tackle the parents again in much stronger terms and, failing that, you might have to lose your temper with the children. Utterly horrible thing to do but it might be the only way (although the thought of the one helping herself to your dd's money makes me v cross). Good luck!

I had a lesser version of this, as a much younger child kept calling for DS.
DS would play with him, but only in small doses, not enough for the caller who would hammer and hammer on our door, whether we were in or out.

Neighbour other side complained about the banging but it was would-be visitor.

I explained to the child, who could not read, that we would put a smiley face sign in the window if my DS was available to play with, and a sad face sign if he was not. To my surprise this worked!

I think you need a higher fence as well, as these children sound like desperate attention seekers sadly.

This is slightly exaggerated normal Dutch behaviour (not the stealing obviously). You need to tell the children directly what you don't want them to do and how they should behave. Keep it simple. Repeat if necessary.

Its a crowdy country with a lot of people inhabiting a small space. One way of dealing with this is to know a lot about your neighbour's business, to look in the windows as you walk past on the street, to check what people are eating in a restaurant.

Do you speak Dutch?

When they ask you say mind your own business.

When they call your child, say stop it she is not coming out.

Don't let them in your house at all ever.

Make it known they are not welcome.

If all else fails - Move!

Your answer is interesting nijinsky
So it is a genuine cultural difference and not viewed as bad behaviour?

The Dutch are notorious for their directness, and bluntness. Some find them rude, but they can take it back. Children I have seen there, are indeed, wilful and challenging.

British-style manners won't work there, you really need to be direct and explicit about what you do and do not find acceptable.

Thanks for your help! I'm actually Australian (Also known for being direct, so I can take it - admittedly not so great at dishing it!) Meanwhile, you're right about the cultural differences. According to Dutch friends of mine, people who close their curtains have something to hide. Closed curtains are supposed to mean "Stay Away!" Kids here are more "Free Range" than in Australia, which often annoys me. (Especially when you see the parents who had been having a lovely relaxing lunch go off at the person who spilled their soup on the little brat on a scooter inside the Ikea cafe - after being crashed into by the twerp..... Not at all uncommon). Have to say that while the parents are nice enough, they're a bit..... ummm...... Not my style. (Father doesn't seem to work - plays a lot of computer games, etc - Mum works, and is nice, but seems rather blind to the shouting, etc. when she's home..... Have to admit though, if my kids knocked on her door (which they don't) assuming it was a good time for her, she'd welcome them and be generous, etc.....) We've been living in this place since November, so surely the novelty must have worn off! (BTW - My eldest just informed me that she caught the sticky fingered brat from next door in MY room the other day, going through my makeup and jewellery. Bet she was disappointed!!! - Definitely going to insist ruling out neighbours in bedrooms!) My Dutch is good enough to hear them shouting "Stupid Kids" at mine and to tell them where to go if I need to. Just making sure it's not on a day where I've only had two hours' sleep - 'cos I'm sure I'd let fly today!

Oh dear, I'm chuckling here and know I shouldn't, but thats taking the P with Dutch directness and nosieness - going into the neighbour's bedroom to rifle through their stuff! I bet though if you make the message loud and clear enough and define your boundaries well enough, this will stop. The children sound bored and fascinated by your family. Oh, and the loud voices is normal too.

Have to say the mother going out to work while the father does not is rather unusual in the Netherlands.

A child rifling through my possessions would get a tremendous rocket, and not be invited again.

The whole family is unusual by Netherlands standards. I actually like the mother - suspect the kids AND the husband all have ADHD in some form or another. Definitely feel sorry for her - his way of dealing with the kids is to send them outside, chuck music videos on (wonder why the 7 year old looks/acts like a hooker?) and throws sugar at them......sigh! Thanks for letting me vent, anyway!

Have you tried screaming the dutch equivalent of fuck off at them . . . full volume?