to expect that my minister would have made some reference to my bereavement?

[Northernlurker]

Bil died in March, having been diagnosed in October with incurable cancer. Dh and I are active members of our church, dh is on the leadership team and I know he mentioned my families need for prayer more than once. Bil's death was mentioned to the congregation on the day he died, the minister was there, and dh mentioned it at a meeting the floowing week, minister there too. At no time since then (or before he died in fact) as he said anything to me at all about this. I have had zero pastoral support for him (though I have had excellent support from my friends at church). AIBU to feel this is a bit rubbish? Dh says if I can't let it go I should say something about it to him but I don't wnt to do that. It will just inflame things and serve no supportive purpose to me. All I wanted was an acknowledgement and him to ask after my sister. Bil was nota member of our congregation but dh and I are - so very much so. AIBU to expect my loss would impact on his consciousness even a tiny bit?

I think you should ask in Spirituality....AIBU isn't a place to ascertain if your mnister is leading you well.

Sorry about your BIL though....it doesnt' sound like you're being U at all

YANBU - sorry for your family's loss.

YANBU to feel hurt and upset that he didn't acknowledge your grief personally. YABU to expect anything to happen to rectify this without your saying so. It is rubbish though.

Either accept his rubbishness or address it with him, don't add festering resentment to your emotional load.

And I'm very sorry about your bil.

Supermoo - that's exactly what dh says too. Good advice.

Skinitting - I kind of wanted general views but I agree the spirituality section is the place I'd normally ask. Just feel very hurt and angry actually and this seems like the better place. (I know that isn't very admirable at all - or very Christian)

So sorry for your loss.

I just wonder - at my church, some people wouldn't choose to pray for, or about, those who have died. I think years ago people used to believe that it was almost insulting to suggest that someone faithful would 'need' prayers in that situation, because of belief in resurrection. I wonder if your minister, rather clumsily and unfortunately, has come across this or shares this attitude? Maybe he's not sure how to approach it.

I agree totally that it is really not very good that he wasn't able to find a way to talk to you and establish what you needed, though - seems to me that is part of his job.

I hope you'll not take it amiss if I say a prayer for you and your family.

Hi Northern. So sorry for your loss. We had a similar situation when my mum died. Our minister and his wife were actually very close friends with my mum and dad and my dh, myself, my brother and SIL. However after mum died we saw him once in that year. My illness deteriorated and I wasn't able to make it out to church as much. However he didn't say anything or offer support to dh, db or SIL either. I think what hurt the most was that he loved my mum and I know he was grieving too but we needed him for pastoral support. Also felt heartbroken for my dad who felt that his close friend had abandoned him as well as losing my mum.

My dad was also an elder and my dh a deacon so they saw him frequently. It was very bizarre. We decided not to say anything but just supported each other. However it does still hurt.

That's an interesting thought LittleRedDragon. I will bear that in mind and no I won't take it amiss at all- in fact I would be very grateful. I've been doing ok this month. March was just awful - but a bit of a wobble tonight.

I'll pray for you and your family too. How is your sister doing?

x posted helibee - my dh is a deacon as well. So sorry this happened to you too. It does hurt doesn't it?

x posted again! She's been amazing but it is very hard. Even though we knew exactly what was happening and would happen, it's still a shock.

Will be thinking of you in my prayers, then. God bless.

I know, it does hurt still and I feel guilty about that. I decided to hand it over to God and ask him to heal the hurt. I know that our minister was grieving too as he and mum were very close but she was my mum and I was only just 23 and my brother was only 20 when mum died. I guess we felt lost and were hoping that our minister, who we counted as a friend first and foremost would be there for us.

Even when yiu kniw it's coming, the shock is still awful. My mum had a brain tumour for a year before she died and we had her in a hospital bed at home. That last night she'd been in a coma but was still desperately trying to hold on. We kept saying to her that it was ok to go home to Jesus. but the moment she went, I just couldn't actually believe it and still can't if I'm being honest.

Did your sister and BIL have children? I will definitely pray for her and you as you grieve and also as you support her.

Northernlurker,

I'm so sorry for your loss. May he rest in peace.

YANBU.

A church should be a family and act as one. A brief announcement, offer of congregational condolence, a few minutes of silence to pray for the deceased and family, or reflect on his life, would not have been amiss.

xxxx

There's plenty to pray for when someone is dying of cancer, for them and for their family. Horrible for a minister to behave like that. I really would speak to him, especially as your husband is on the leadership as the next person could be someone who is put off by this sort of behaviour. If you're worried about it then maybe speaking to the rest of the leadership team if you feel comfortable enough or going above his head.

We had a situation I wish others had made more fuss before us. Our old minister didn't like me and by extension my partner. My partner started going to church because of our relationship but he found it hard because of our minister. We lost a little girl who was born too soon, he refused to do the service, didn't understand why we'd want one and then said to get it done at the crem. Fortunately my grandads stepped in and a friend of my one grandad and took the service between them (at our church!) When our next daughter was born a year later he refused to Dedicate her because God doesn't bless illegitimate children and even said it's (having children outside marriage) illegal! My partner left the church and it took a lot to get him to come back. Eventually I managed to when a new man took over our church. By that point we had lost a great deal of our membership and those that were left were disillusioned. I feel so angry that no one ever complained, people just took what he did. He caused a lot of people to leave the church and harmed at least one person who wasn't a Christian.

No, no children but bil had grown up girls from his first marriage.
Thanks for the prayers. That helps - maybe God is telling me not to be fussy about the support I get

You are perfectly entitled to be fussy about getting the proper support :)

Confuddled, that's so sad about what you and your dp had to go through. Especially after your lost your precious baby girl. Is your dp happy to go to church now?

Yes, he's a totally different person now since the new guy took over. He was baptised (or drowned as our daughter told everyone) in October and now drags everyone else out on a Sunday when we're in a slow mood!

I would be fussy about the support. You expect pastoral support from your minister, it's not up to him to decide what's good enough to pray about. If it's important to a member of his church then it's important enough. Of course getting extended support is not a bad thing

YANBU, is it possible that your pastor didn't realize you were very close or see it as "your" loss?

I am not very close to my SIL (husband's brother's wife) at all and barely know her. But I would be very upset if anything were to happen to my husband's sister or her husband and I see them as close family.

I'm sorry that this is situation is being made even more difficult by the actions of your minister. It should be his concern if those he is there to shepherd are hurting, injured or sick; unfortunately this can be lost in the day to day running of things.
I'mnot trying to excuse it, but I can understand it. My DH is a vicar and sometimes he struggles with making sure he's not distracted by the day to day stuff and looking after people. I know when he finds out he's missed calling on someone whose ill, or has forgotten to get visit a family that's bereaved or struggling in some way he gets so crossed with himself.

Agree with the other posters that suggest telling your minister how you feel. I doesn't have to be confrontational or make things worse, but it might help him understand how much this has hurt you.

Ultimately a church leaders role is to help his flock nurture there relationship with God, each other and help make life just a little bit less hard.

It sounds like you have wonderfully supportive friends at your church, lean on them, and don;t be afraid to shout, scream, cry your emotions on the Father.

Sorry to hear about your BIL.

I'd suggest your DH has a word with the minister, to say "Northern is struggling with losing her BIL and could do with a visit."

I am kind of surprised he hasn't thought of this himself rather than just telling you to tell the minister.

If my DH was struggling and needed pastoral support I wouldn't just tell him to ring the Vicar, I'd ring the Vicar and alert him to the need, and leave it to him to approach DH.

Ministers usually do respond to pastoral need but I can imagine how - if someone seems to be coping well, it's a busy time for the minister, no one has asked him to call, and the crucial moment seems to have passed - once in a while someone doesn't get the attention they need.

In a nutshell, I agree you shouldn't have to ask for support, but given that you do, your DH should have asked for you.

THanks very much, it is so helpful to read everybody's perspectives and I think you are all right tbh
Balloonslayer - tbh dh has been struggling a bit too and I think this has hurt him more than he is letting on. This is not the first disappointment we've had with this minister and I think dh is dealing with it by putting up walls and not letting it bother him. I just can't do that - it BOTHERS ME! There is somebody on the pastoral team I could talk to though - might do that.

Oh and confuddled - I'm so sorry for your loss and that awful response How wonderful that things are better now though.

Thank you Northern. It was a long time ago and things are so much better. It's certainly made me think about things with ministers. As I said both my grandads are/were ministers so I always knew that it doesn't make someone infallible but something I have taken from our experience is that things are often not just a one time oversight, especially when they carry on longer than you'd expect an oversight to. For example, if this was an oversight with you then maybe he forgot to mention and pray about your BIL when he was alive but to continue for this long is a decision. If he's making decisions like that then you can be sure it's not a one time thing. You might not know of any other examples but you can bet if you ask around you'd find them. I know when our new guy took over he had a service where he said how he feels things are going to move forward, looking around the church you could see a lot of deflated people. Now our church is bigger than it ever was and you never see a deflated face, unless it's a personal issue but not as a church.

Northernlurker - Sorry about your BIL. It must be hard to not have something so important to you acknowledged by one of the people whose job it is to acknowledge it.

Did the minister's behaviour come as a surprise? I was just wondering if he has trouble with the pastoral side of his role. I am sure not all ministers are gifted that way - I have met one or two who aren't. However, they should be aware of their weaknesses and try to do something about it.

I am pretty sure our minister would say something about a bereavement but on the other hand, I also know of somebody in our congregation who is trying to tell him something pretty major to her and although the minister has acknowledged her concerns he hasn't actually done anything about it. The lady eventually mentioned it to the minister's wife who said that sometimes you have to be very blunt and lay it on a plate to get him to acknowledge the seriousness of what she wanted help with. Maybe your minister is the same. He is registering your loss but not registering that he is required to act.

So no, YANBU and I agree that either you or your DH need to say that you are struggling and want help. It isn't ideal but unless something is said and the minister acts, it will be something that will come between you. If nothing else a little bit of the respect you hold for him, and which you should be able to hold for him as your spiritual leader (for want of a better phrase) will be lost if nothing happens and that is far from ideal.

Hope you get what you need.