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AIBU?

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Original poster

High heel shoes/provocative clothing

111 replies

thejanuarys · 19/04/2011 21:45

Just been watching Sex Education show on C4 and founder of MN was on. Essentially, consensus is that it is inappropriate for young primary aged girls to wear high heeled shoes/girly-adult clothing. I agree. However, my contention is that it starts before primary age. My four yr old is begging me for princess dresses and disney character high heeled plastic shoes. Other mums I know allow their children to 'play' in these items, providing disney/high street shop versions of make-up, nail varnish etc for girls. And my kid goes to a good nursery! So far I have playfully/skillfully said 'no'. I will continue to do so until she is 14 at least! But it is my/our responsibility to say 'no' to children. Yet, if articulate, intelligent parents are allowing children to dress up, wear make-up and dress in princess dresses, then of course girls will begin to covet them. On the rare occasions I allow my daughter to dress in this way at playdate etc, she is invariably greeted with 'what a lovely/pretty princess' type comments. The shops are to blame (I rarely take my child shopping with me, so temptation/exposure is limited) for being opportunist, but parents are the ones who are ultimately responsible for indulging;/allowing their children to be seduced by the disney marketing machine which will lead girls to believe that being 'girly' is as, or more important than being funny, clever, kind, capable. It is way too late at primary school age. I am very concerned because these girls, whose parents do not have the skill to impose boundaries, will be the ones exerting peer pressure on my daughter, making my job a lot harder.

OP posts:
bubblecoral · 19/04/2011 22:52

It comes naturally to a lot of little girls to want to wear these things, and I don't believe that anything that comes naturally should be totally stifled.

I think the problems you describe only come along when a child is given the impression that the thing they are valued most for is looking pretty. If they are allowed to gain a sense of achievement and pride for other things, and are valued and praised for those things, there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

hairfullofsnakes · 19/04/2011 22:52

Methinks you are thinking about this a bit too much LOUISIANBLUE - little girls just want to be princesses! Let them!

zukiecat · 19/04/2011 22:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cerealqueen · 19/04/2011 22:57

There is a huge difference between wearing a princess dress and high heels and the sexualisation of clothes that we see today. I loved wearing my mums high heels and dresses and putting on her beads. The clothes that I wore are far different to what you can buy now - cropped t-shirts, provocative slogans on t-shirts, lacy underwaear - and sadly its the parents that buy it. The market creates a demand and its up to the parents to resist, that is our job.

MooMooFarm · 19/04/2011 22:57

To me there is a big difference between wearing princess 'costumes' and wearing 'adult style' mini skirts and high heels. My DD loves dressing up as a princess, and as lots of other things, as I did when I was her age. I loved being girly and all things pink, but have gone on to have a good career and a fully functional brain Grin

squeakytoy · 19/04/2011 22:57

All girls want to feel pretty, it is a natural thing. What child wants to feel "ugly".

If dressing up as a princess makes a little girl feel pretty, why on earth should people be so bloody miserable and stamp on their fun, by trying to instill feminist ideals and make the child wonder if feeling pretty is a bad thing?

All children want to feel clever too, and again, if they want to play at being a nurse, or a vet, or any other thing that comes to mind in their childlike imagination, let them get on with it...

CarnivalBizarre · 19/04/2011 23:14

I don't have a problem with dressing up clothes a la Disney whatsoever - they are an outlet of imagination for a child .. I didn't have that luxury as a child

I do have a problem with women who dress their children as mini adults - my sister dresses her 2 yr old daughter like Bet Lynch and puts mascara on her too - it makes me want to punch my sister in the throat Angry

squeakytoy · 19/04/2011 23:16

that is definately too much... little girls do not need make up.. especially mascara which is a bugger to get off, and will sting their poor little eyes :(

I was in shows and pantos throughout my younger years, from being about 3, and we never had mascara on, even though we had other stage make up.

sausagerolemodel · 19/04/2011 23:17

Squeakytoy "what utter tosh"?

Really? REALLY - have you actually thought about this in any kind of depth? Its not tosh. Its far from TOSH. Do you even know any of the subtext underlying the wearing of high heels? That they lengthen the calves and stretch the toes to mimic what happens during orgasm? NOW do you think its OK for your daughter? If it weren't for disney princesses and WAGs perpetuating this male fantasy would it still be going? Have another think about what message YOUR high heels send to your daughters.

You cant run in them. You cant fight in them. You're a captive in them.

gordyslovesheep · 19/04/2011 23:19

Disney Princess is harmless??? honestly \i'd rather my 3 parade in mini thongs and high heels than wear that corporate mouses candy coated post feminist shite - sorry Grin

CareyFakes · 19/04/2011 23:22

It's all about Gender Beliefs, and we, as parents, instill that belief until they are old enough to read and believe that is their role. My child will not have a scrap of make-up on her until she's old enough to buy it herself having worked as a stripper in a Deep South american bar

squeakytoy · 19/04/2011 23:25

Sausage, have you ever tried to dance (properly) in flat shoes? It isnt actually possible.

CarnivalBizarre · 19/04/2011 23:25

Squeaky, I was horrified by seeing my niece scratching at her eyes and my sister slapping her hands away for fear of 'ruining the look' !!!!

Think along the lines of the picture of Katie Price's daughter that she she released on twitter and you will have some idea of the look my sister was trying to achieve for her child Sad

CarnivalBizarre · 19/04/2011 23:27

Uh Oh! This has quickly turned into a feminism thread hasn't it!

Salmotrutta · 19/04/2011 23:27

Dressing up as a "princess" and dressing up in "adult" clothes are two separate issues.
I doubt that anyone has a problem with little girls dressing up in princess outfits but most intelligent people would have huge problems with little girls wearing padded bras, high heels and make-up.
Princess outfits don't generally look "adult" and are just sparkly and harmless.
Make up, high heels, padded bras and suchlike on young girls is just abhorrent.

sausagerolemodel · 19/04/2011 23:37

I'd love to know what dancing "properly" entails?do squeal squeakytoy.

CareyFakes · 19/04/2011 23:39

Nothing wrong with a feminist dears. I just wouldn't be so gender specific or role specific with my child. Different strokes and all that jazz.

CareyFakes · 19/04/2011 23:40

Also, I have personally tried doing the 'Running Man' in heels, it's nigh on impossible.

Onetoomanycornettos · 19/04/2011 23:40

I can assure you that nothing, nothing makes a girl want to wear sparkly things more than being made to wear gender-neutral brown cord dungarees and a pudding bowl haircut. You are not the first to try and modify your children's choices, but in my experience, it just doesn't work. Society and its messages are much more powerful than you, and I prefer to teach my children to be clever consumers who see Disney dresses for what they are (marketed tat but fun to dress up in if you want) rather than ban them and drag them into some very weak argument about sexualisation (which really doesn't work with Disney Princesses).

CareyFakes · 19/04/2011 23:44

No dungarees here, or cords, make my skin crawl. Never had her hair cut, has dress up clothes that aren't 'sparkly' and generally is alright in the head thus far.

I wouldn't 'force' her into anything, but I'll raise her with the tools to realise marketing and that sparkly pink is a bit shit. Each to their own yadda yadda

colditz · 19/04/2011 23:45

I see nothing wrong with pink, sparkly girly pretty things.

Until we stamp out the homophobic, female phobic hysteria that is immediately apparent whenever a boy over 2 tries to do something/wear something/ like something pretty, or pink, or gentle, we will get NOWHERE with making the world value femininity.

Grown adults appear actually frightened when their little boys pick up a doll. What the fuck is all that about? Do they think his penis will fall off and they will have to raise the Vastly Inferior Female 'Human' Child?

colditz · 19/04/2011 23:47

"I can assure you that nothing, nothing makes a girl want to wear sparkly things more than being made to wear gender-neutral brown cord dungarees "

If my scanner was working, I'd scan in a picture of me aged four, in gender neutral brown cord dungarees. No joke.

Of course, when I go out now, I wear more make up than Julian Clary with a hangover.

colditz · 19/04/2011 23:47

And I have no fewer than 3 pairs of high heeled red shoes. One velvet, and two nubuck.

CareyFakes · 19/04/2011 23:48

Both genders are forced into gender beliefs, as colditz rightly pointed out.

Equality is far off

TethersEnd · 19/04/2011 23:50

Well said, colditz.

I think a really damaging message is being sent to a lot of little girls whose parents are trying to do the opposite of what they end up doing- ie telling them that 'princesses' and 'pink' and 'girly' things are of no value, and that they must emulate traditionally male roles/pursuits in order to be of value. This is a harmful message, IMO.

It reinforces the issue it is trying to address.