to get annoyed

[hobnobsaremyfavourite]

by people who post their opinions and claim they are facts .
Most posters on here debate well and will argue and counter argue which is what I love about AIBU and MN generally. Most posters will state that this is their personal opinion or will back up their arguments with research etc that back them up. This makes for interesting and informative debate.
BUT some posters wade in with utter bollocks and claim it as fact which is annoying as hell.

Well, you got my support Trillian

well the Catholic Church is still against all forms of contraception, citing it as intrinsically evil.

I also get annoyed by people who forget that their own personal experience does not count as hard data. Or not understand what the word risk is.

For example. I have crossed a fast dual carriageway many times when I was a child. That does not mean that it is perfectly safe for children to cross dual carriageways, it just meant I was bloody lucky not to get splattered.

altinkum - you can't abort a sperm but some stricter religions think that abortion happens when you eject a fertilised embryo

preventative methods (preventing fertilisation) aren't considered abortion (like condoms) which is why Popey has agreed they can be used to prevent Aids in Africa

The pope has never said that preventative methods can be used in Africa or anywhere else, in his last statement in 2009 he said handing out condoms in Africa doesn't help the Aids epidemic and may even make it worse.

I am of the opinion that expelling a fertilised egg would count as an 'abortion'. In my opinion, the zygote is living pre-implantation. Label it what you will. Getting 'annoyed' with me for thinking that would be a little unreasonable. I can't tell if that is what the thread is about though. Are you annoyed by people believing things or sharing them?

then it follows that you also think that everytime a fertilised egg does not naturally implant, you have had a miscarriage? You know that happens quite often, yes?

If a fertilized embryo dies accidentally, that's a miscarriage/stillbirth. If you do something to make it hapen, that's an abortion.

The question being debated is whether the embryo needs to be just fertilized, or fertilized + implanted, to call it anything at all.

its not an embryo until after it implants, so you're having the wrong argument there.

Stillbirth, after 24 weeks, is a foetus, also not an embryo.

The semantics are important.

it makes the womb hostile to sperm, it prevents fertilisation, it can prevent ovulation in the first place...if all else fails it is thought that it might prevent the implantation of a fertilised egg. Maybe, occasionally, no-one actually knows for sure.

No, since you aren't pregnant. Think about it this way, if you have IVF, they implant some fertilised eggs, right? Then you wait and see if you are pregnant. You aren't considered to be pregnant unless there is implantation and a pos pregnancy test.

Different names for different stages of development are important, but I thought I'd do better at explaining if I described the time points rather than just saying it depends if it is an egg or zygote or embryo or foetus or baby or a third-stage blastocyst or whatever.

I think you've got it there - the coil could prevent implantation. If you believe that it is wrong to do anything (once sperm has met egg) that could hinder the potential of that sperm+egg to turn into a baby, then you might consider this as abortion. Others say that since so many sperm+egg meetings fail at the implantation stage, it's not an abortion unless you are removing something that has already implanted.

Interesting point with the IVF. If you believe that abortion is wrong, does that mean that you would refuse IVF, unless every fertilised egg was implanted?

The Catholic Church is also against IVF because they regard the embryos created in labs as being human beings. A person who believes that will also believe that the IUD causes abortion as it prevents implantation of these humans.

What's "what Trillian said"? I said some people would think this and other people might think that.

You can't agree with that! It's like being asked if you'd prefer tea or coffee and saying 'yes please'. :o

Why does the Catholic Church care if the coil prevents pregnancy (contraception) or ends prgnancy (abortion)? Isn't it against both?