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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to vote against AV just because I can't stand Nick Clegg?

60 replies

headfairy · 15/04/2011 11:17

Or is that just handing the Tories a victory and cutting off my nose to spite my face? I'm truly undecided about AV but I'd like to see NC royally whooped for being such a two faced twunt.

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LadyThumb · 15/04/2011 11:27

They're ALL two-faced twunts - no-one more so that Gordon Brown was! If you want Labour in, then vote for them.

I've just been reading about AV and I don't think I like it. It is a poor second choice to Proportional Representation.

VivaLeBeaver · 15/04/2011 11:33

I know where you're coming from. I think the fact that Clegg supports it will put a lot of people off.

I have to say I don't really understand it so have no idea whether its a good thing or not. The way I see it is;

If I lived in a Labour/Tory area but liked Lib Dem best at the minute I wouldn't vote Lib Dem (please note this is hypothetical) because I would think it would be a wasted vote. So if I really hated the Tories I'd vote Labour to try and keep the Tories out even though I didn't really want Labour - but just thought they're better than the Tories.

If AV comes in I'd be able to vote Lib Dem and put Labour down as my second choice. So I'd be able to vote for who I wanted and Lib Dem would have more chance of getting in as more people would risk their vote. If Lib Dems still didn't get in then my second choice vote for Labour would be counted and still keep the Tories out.

Is that right? That to me sounds a good thing. Why are so many people against it?

wheresmidunkey · 15/04/2011 11:33

I think it is cutting off your nose to spite your face - and I think a lot of people will do exactly that.

I actually agree with Eddie Izzard and co that AV would force politicians to work harder for us because their seats would be less secure. If they all had to shift their arses a bit more on our behalf it would be a good thing.

It's not as good as Proportional Rep, but if we have AV we can vote in people who want Prop Rep. Namely, anyone other than the big two parties which have had it far too easy for far too long - look at the expenses scandal, Iraq war, etc.

AMumInScotland · 15/04/2011 11:33

YABU - you should vote on issues, not personalities. Choosing to vote on personalities instead is the sort of thing that gets women treated as the kind of idiots who can't understand politics.

wheresmidunkey · 15/04/2011 11:35

VLB, so many people are against it because the big two parties really, really don't want to lose the first past the post system which keeps them eternally in power.

AMumInScotland · 15/04/2011 11:35

VivaLaBeaver - yes you understand it right. I think some people don't think it goes far enough, but I'll vote for it as being better than what we have now, then work to get something even better in the future.

wheresmidunkey · 15/04/2011 11:36

Also imagine if there were other parties which were influential in British politics - there would be far more openness and debate about issues, like Are we really sure that the Iraq war is legal?

Original poster
headfairy · 15/04/2011 11:37

That's told me amuminscotland :o I know, it's pathetic. I think it's because I don't fully understand it. I get the whole alternative vote 50% thing, and it sounds fairer to me, but I'm worried about the future of further coalition governments, they don't always seem to work. Or at least that's what we're told, doesn't Germany have a coalition govt? Doesn't seem to do them any harm.

vivalabeaver You explained that really well, I live in a die hard Tory area so really wouldn't make any difference to us, but that doens't mean it might not in the future I guess.

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GeekCool · 15/04/2011 11:38

It's ok. According to the DM us Scots are going to ruin it for everyone in England and we will force AV on to you anyway.
Sorry, I'm very annoyed at the article there this morning.

AV is poor to PR but I do think it's better than what we have.

Original poster
headfairy · 15/04/2011 11:38

thing is wheresmidunky the Libdems haven't exactly shown themselves to be that stunning in government that they deserve a proper shot at it.

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LadyOfTheManor · 15/04/2011 11:41

I'm voting against. I don't see how second/third best parties will have a chance of winning. Clegg is only obsessed with this as the general election is usually a two horse race...this will ensure that he has a better chance of winning.

wheresmidunkey · 15/04/2011 11:43

I don't think the Libdems will be that relevant either. I think you're right, they've disgraced themselves and people won't vote for them even under AV. Let's have loads more independents and people like Caroline Lucas, whether they're Green Party or not.

wheresmidunkey · 15/04/2011 11:45

I really don't think a vote for AV is a vote for the Libdems. If it were, then I would vote no, but it isn't. It's a chance to voters to have more say.

PeachyAndTheArghoNauts · 15/04/2011 11:45

It's a poor second to P but I prefer it to first past the post.

But you know, whereas I have joked that i would vote against DC if he proposed a bill [protecting free oxygen ;) in reality you have tor ead and make your own call, NC is a twunt (and GB certainly seemed to be one the more I elarn about his personal characteristics) but it's not about that is it?

AV seems to work well in Wales (lived here for 6 years now so good to compare). Although you won;t get a consensus on that either of course. Black, in politics, is for 50%, white. Or maybe 38% white and 22% yellow if you don't have AV.

Twit · 15/04/2011 11:46

YABU

Not because I don't sympathise and agree with you but because it should be a decision based on more than whatever arse is putting it forward.
As it happens I don't want either.

AMumInScotland · 15/04/2011 11:46

I think it will make a difference because people will be able to see that actually there is a lot of support for the Greens, or LibDems, or whatever, in their area, and might actually then look into the issues and consider voting for that party themself, instead of just voting for their less-hated of whichever are biggest in their area.

It wouldn't be an instant change, but the current statistics you see after the election only tell you who people chose to vote for because the current system makes them vote tactically, not who they really want.

wheresmidunkey · 15/04/2011 11:47

So what will you vote, Twit?

frantic51 · 15/04/2011 11:48

I'm just against having to , in effect, vote for someone you don't want at all. Also, loonies who vote BNP are going to get their vote counted many times, which is a bit Shock imo.

I also worry about the cost of implementing it, it's surely going to take a lot more time to process, and I thought we, as a country, were skint atm? Hmm I really don't see that it's any "fairer" than the first past the post system, just different and I don't buy the argument that it's a "stepping stone" to PR, which is what we really need. If it is, a bloody expensive one and not guaranteed to lead to PR anyway.

Twit · 15/04/2011 11:50

I'm leaning towards AV, but am wondering if writing 'bollocks' across my paper might not be more accurate and satisfying.

Original poster
headfairy · 15/04/2011 11:52

frantic that's one of my biggest concerns... if it give minority parties like the Greens more influence, doesn't it therefore also give parties like the BNP and UKIP more influence?

I agree first past the post isn't great though.... the Tory/Lab dominance has got to end surely?

Peachy What personal characteristics of GB do you know of? I work with someone who's married to a close family member and has said he's very very earnest and sincere.

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wheresmidunkey · 15/04/2011 11:53

Yes, MuminScotland, the reason we don't vote Green or Independent is because we know it's a wasted vote under the current system.

wheresmidunkey · 15/04/2011 11:54

Headfairy, how else is the Tory/Lab dominance going to end, though?

SardineQueen · 15/04/2011 11:59

Hahahah at implication that clever logical men always vote on the issues Grin While silly frilly women on who has the kindest face Hmm

On AV - PR is what's really needed I think? I'm a Green so will be voting yes to AV as I guess every little helps.

EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 15/04/2011 12:00

This is the first time I've ever looked forward to seeing the Lib Dem people loitering outside the polling station.

Original poster
headfairy · 15/04/2011 12:02

wheresmidunky I did ask that question further up... I don't think there's any other way of ending the tory/lab dominance.

while we're all on here, can someone explain the difference between av and pr to me?

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