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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

ok so i have just seen the sma advert that you all got so offended about!

31 replies

houseworkwhore · 14/04/2011 15:11

and I would just like to point out that when the man has the laptop you can clearly see it says how to breastfeed on it!

So no it was not advertising sma formula. It was advertising sma's nutrition website.

so hopefully that clears that up.

OP posts:
RitaMorgan · 14/04/2011 15:12

It was advertising SMA.

SomethingSuper · 14/04/2011 15:13

No, it's a deliberate attempt to mislead Smile

MissPaintyOeuf · 14/04/2011 15:13

Yes, they're not actually breaking any laws, but they are (as usual) trying to get round the fact that they can't advertise formula for newborns by finding alternative ways to create brand loyalty in new mums.

houseworkwhore · 14/04/2011 15:21

However if you watch the advert properly it shows on the laptop the man is holding they are reading breastfeeding advice. It is also on the fridge.

If they were trying to make everyone formula feed then it wouldn't show breastfeeding advice surely?

OP posts:
confuddledDOTcom · 14/04/2011 15:24

It's well known that formula ads are aimed at breastfeeders. As has already been said it's about brand awareness and loyalty so that when "you decide to stop" you already have a familiarity with SMA.

sparkle12mar08 · 14/04/2011 15:27

Oh houseworkwhore, you are so beautifully naive aren't you?! Do you really think SMA have the best interests of breastfeeders at heart? Bless you!

RitaMorgan · 14/04/2011 15:27

They don't want to encourage breastfeeding, they want to increase brand awareness among breastfeeding mothers. They want to increase brand awareness full stop - so that if/when you have to choose a formula brand, SMA is the first one that pops into your head.

PunkPixie · 14/04/2011 15:28

I haven't seen the ad yet but I hated the Aptimil ads for follow on milk when I stoped BFing DS2 due to thrush in my breasts. They start off with the breast is best thing and talk about "when you're ready to move on"

Well I wasn't ready to move on and that ad just made me feel like shit. Suffice it to say that I stayed away from Aptimil formula on the sole basis of having been upset by that ad.

KaraStarbuckThrace · 14/04/2011 15:31

Let's never forget that formula companies have one agenda, and that is to make a profit.
What this advert is saying "look at us we are so supportive of breastfeeding" so when you stop you can use SMA because it is obviously so breastfeeding friendly Hmm

That's why I get really Angry when people come along spouting bollocks about breastfeeding promotion. Because formula companies have been pumping billions of dollars over the last 80 years systematically promoting formula and undermining breastfeeding. The amount of money spent on breastfeeding promotion is a mere drop in the ocean.

Still would like to see less money spent on breastfeeding promotion and more on supporting mums wanting to breastfeed!

Mishy1234 · 14/04/2011 15:32

I haven't seen the advert, but it sounds like they are trying to make a link between breastfeeding and SMA. Like confuddledDOTcom says, it's aiming to get in there when "you decide to stop" breastfeeding. I seem to remember another advert saying something similar to "when you move on from breastfeeding" for the same reason.

Also, the links to breastfeeding are designed to make people perceive their brand as breastfeeding friendly and therefore closer to bm than other brands.

sausagesandmarmelade · 14/04/2011 15:33

I checked out the SMA website and it does indeed have a section on BF'ing.

Haven't seen this advert...so cannot comment on that.

MissPaintyOeuf · 14/04/2011 15:36

I agree Starbuck, it's all well and good telling us that breast is best but when you're finding BFing agonisingly painful you need 1:1 support. And it's not easy for everyone to get to a BFing support cafe session with a brand-new baby, an episiotomy wound and piles the size of your fists.

KaraStarbuckThrace · 14/04/2011 15:39

Misspointy - absolutely, I would rather spend the money on getting someone to give you practical help for you to continue.

Oh God don't talk to me about piles... Shock

MorrisZapp · 14/04/2011 15:40

Of course they are profits driven, they are a company. As are the manufacturers of all the other stuff you buy your kids.

The budget spent on ads is driven by private marketing budgets, not public money from taxes.

What would people like to actually do about this? Pay vastly more tax so that we can spend millions on bf promotion?

KaraStarbuckThrace · 14/04/2011 15:51

MorrisZapp -I did explain that I want the money spent on SUPPORT and not PROMOTION.

And considering the benefits to the nation's health and the potential reduction in NHS costs in supporting mums to breastfeed for longer it could well be money well spent

info here

There is another thread in B&B that has more info on cost savings to the NHS, but I haven't got time to look for it now as my laptop battery is about to die..

GeekCool · 14/04/2011 15:53

The breastfeeding link is purely to get the ad past ASA. They don't want mothers to BF. They want you to use SMA.

confuddledDOTcom · 14/04/2011 16:05

The breastfeeding link is the only way they can advertise to pregnant women and new mothers. It's incredibly crafty!

"When you decide to move on" was the phrase I was looking for. It might be a competitor phrase but it certainly sums up this advert and many like it.

sausagesandmarmelade · 14/04/2011 16:09

GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!

worraliberty · 14/04/2011 16:11

That you 'all' got so offended about? Hmm

I really do have better things to worry about/be offended about Grin

GiddyPickle · 14/04/2011 16:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MichaelaS · 14/04/2011 16:44

It would be possible to "tax" the formula companies as they place adverts. Money goes into a ringfenced pot which is spent on advertising breastfeeding for example.

In my experience (personal and anecdotal from friends) educating HV about when to be concerned and when NOT to be concerned re weight gain, wet nappies etc would do more to support women who want to bf but struggle. Many HV don't seem to understand what a centile weight chart means, i.e. that it is perfectly fine for 10% of babies to be at or under the 10% centile line. It does not mean they are unhealthy or need supplementing unless there are other clinical indications like excessive sleepiness, very poor urine output or a particular need for high calorie intake by the baby.

confuddledDOTcom · 14/04/2011 16:57

That's why SMA and Aptamil etc are there. For when you decide to move on. That's what they're advertising, that they'll pick up the pieces when breastfeeding doesn't work. They're trying to make you give up, just putting the message there of "when" you need them they'll be there. Of course no woman gives up because she's seen an ad but they want her brand aware before she does.

GiddyPickle · 14/04/2011 17:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

confuddledDOTcom · 14/04/2011 17:54

There are plenty of women who think the substances are equal (so the choice is delivery) or that breastmilk isn't as good. Some people think science has the answers and that formula is scientific.

I'm feeling sorry for a friend at the moment. Her twins haven't had a drop of formula and just at the start of BLW her Facebook wall is full of her family putting her down and she tells me it's worse IRL. She's never criticised non-AP practice but her family see her being AP as criticism of their parenting so she gets constant comments. All that breast isn't good for them.

MichaelaS · 14/04/2011 20:14

Plenty of women don't know bf is best, or don't believe the "hype". see the thread on Cherry whatsit and her bf tv programme "is breast best". Some people think doctors / midwives / HVs are only trying to meet politically correct EU targets. Some people don't want to accept that for most babies it is clearly the healthiest and best option, regardless of the mother's desire whether or not to bf. (of course i'm not saying anyone should be forced to bf - just that many people make a choice first then justify it afterwards with false science or by saying it makes no difference)

Some (especially teenage) mums think boobs are "sexual" or that "only posh people bf, not people like me". Some think their milk isn't enough in terms of richness or volume. Like confuddled says, many mums get grief from their families for cultural reasons - I have a friend who married into an extended east end family. She chose to bf until about 12 months. The whole family thought she was weird, the baby would grow up with strange sexual ideas and that she was starving him because he wasn't "chubby" like his formula fed cousins. I think that's as bad if not worse than the so called bf Nazis whose position is at least supported by some scientific evidence!

But I agree the message that bf is ideal has been done to death - so why not tax formula advertising to pay for more bf support workers, or training all HV to have basic bf support worker training, or research into why mothers who expressed a preference for bf decided to stop.

I guess for me it's the implication that you ought to reach a stage where you're ready to "move on" - like you're somehow immature or doing the wrong thing if you don't want to change to formula. It sets an expectation that at some stage you "should" move on. Whatever happened to the biologically ideal route of bf until weaning? cut out the middle man (middle cow!) and the profits and make your own.

With the right support its amazing what you can achieve. I didn't have major surgery but I did have one of the worst possible starts in terms of successful breast feeding outcomes. I gave birth very early at 24 weeks, and my baby wasn't expected to live. (hmm, come to think of it, I did then have surgery too...) Despite this, I was still approached and asked if i'd like to bf and the shown the mechanics of expressing milk. That early on, you have no lactation hormones and it is painfully slow to persuade your body to make some. I went through 3 days of painful hand expressing colostrum every 4 hours and getting 2 or 3ml a time. To do that I had to take time away from my critically sick son, which was immensely difficult. Later my proper milk came in and it was pump expressing, which is a skill in itself (so much respect for the dairy cows!) Over time my supply improved but I needed medication to increase it, and later on I needed help to try bf directly with a tiny baby who was still on breathing support. Thankfully he survived, and having my milk was one of the factors that helped him to survive - formula fed premature infants are at higher risk of the life threatening gut disease NEC. You should see how precious a few ml of EBM is on a NICU unit. Some units will pay for donor ebm it's that important. Every drop counts, every drop possible is fed to the babies.

Due to my son's lung problems he always needed lots of calories and we ended up mixed feeding, which was the right thing for him, based on medical advice and a clear diagnosis. I am so proud that we got through 5 hard months of expressing 7 times a day and were able to bf at home for a further 9 months until my supply finally gave up and my son self weaned. We went through cracked nipples, mastitis, 3 hour long cluster feeding sessions, all the fun of the fair. But we did it. I couldn't have got there without some fantastic on-unit support and a very brave midwife who suggested it was possible in the first place. Bf at home also meant he got fewer coughs and colds and so had fewer readmissions to hospital. It has saved the NHS thousands of pounds already in paediatric ward costs - let alone any future health benefits.

So obviously I have a lot of baggage here.... but my point is that any encouragement towards formula as a "normal" thing or by implication a "better choice" after a certain stage is a discouragement from breast feeding. It encourages mothers to persevere a little less. To think that it's an either or choice rather than moving to an inferior product. To think that once their baby is a certain age it's better to move to formula or to cows milk.

There are few mothers who have a worst time of it than me in terms of an easy road to bf. So, I get really angry at those who don't try. OK, so it's not a life and death decision for most babies. But it can mean healthy immune system or asthma, emotional stability gained from skin to skin time or not, faster brain development from receiving ideal amounts of trace elements or not. And how much of the bottle brigade "don't judge me" attitude is actually referred guilt from an underlying "i understand bf is best but i couldn't do it" belief?

Not having appropriate support to help you succeed is one thing. Of course we should do more here to make bf as easy, comfortable and enjoyable as possible for mums. If you don't get the advice and are in pain / bleeding / full of mastitis and stop bf as a result, noone should judge you.

Giving up before you start because you can't be bothered / don't feel its for you / want your boobs to stay nice and perky is entirely a different matter. A huge percentage of mums in the UK don't even try one first feed - something like 35% i think. The mum's choice is overruling the baby's choice I fear. And i'm afraid I do feel very judgy towards this group.

(rant over). Damn, I have completely turned into a bf Nazi.