to be scared I might have to move house over an argument about a washing machine.....

[stdorothymantooth]

Ok bit long sorry but we live in a rented house with a fully fitted kitchen. Just over two weeks,ago our washing machine broke. We called the landlord who stated that in our lease agreement it says that we are responsible for replacing any electrical items that break.
My Dh went to the letting agents (they don't manage the property but drew up the lease agreement that we signed) who told us that this does not cover white goods, they are the landlord does not accept this and has offered us £75 toward a repair/replacement.
The part that needs replacing is £290 then there's the labour charge. If we had to buy a new washing machine it would have to be like for like and they start at £400.
We have never had a problem with our landlord before and we both like the security of this being a long term let (the last house we rented the landlady put yo for sale six weeks after we moved in).
We do have a washing machine but because its not fully integrated (will fit in the cupboard space) we aren't allowed to use it.......
DH is going to go to the letting agent and get them to put something in writing that its not our responsibility. Maybe I'm just a bit over emotional having no sleep with an 11 week old baby (11 week old baby and no washing machine.....fun) but I'm scared if we push it too far he could start being a Dick and we could end up looking for somewhere else, but on the other hand we are currently living on his salary and my mat pay, so a new washing machine is an expense we could do without (engineer said could fix it but more than likely would blow again).
Am I being silly for being so worried? What would you do?

I would take advice from the letting agent CAB but if he is not fulfilling his side of the contract (providing you with a working washing machine if it is his responsibility) then I would imagine that you would be entitled to a reduction in rent. I think the landlord should be liable for any laundrette bills you have to pay while he's getting his act together.

That should say and CAB.

I think it sounds like it's the agent at fault for not having a clear agreement in the contract. They should have made it clear whether it does mean white goods or not, because if it's not clear, I think the ll is being reasonable, and generous giving you money, if he honestly has a good reason to believe it's not his responsibility.

You need to have a professional go over the contract and get it explained clearly.

Is the washing machine specified in the inventory?

If so, its maintenance is the landlord's responsibility except in clear cases of misuse (eg if you've been overfilling it with soap powder or letting the seal get mouldy - both of which are easy for your landlord to prove).

Is your deposit protected? If it is, and the machine is specified in your inventory, you've nothing to fear about getting tough. Contrary to popular belief, a LL cannot kick you out just because you're being awkward.

Have you looked on eBay for an integrated appliance you might be able to get one second hand and cheaper.

Generally though the washing machine would be the responsibility of the landlord specifically as it is integrated.

thomasbodley you have given wrong advice. Just because something is in the inventory does not mean it it for the LL to repair etc. If the OPs tenancy is unfurnished, items such as white goods are an 'extra', if they are in the inventory it only means they have to be there at the end of the tenancy in the same condition as the start.

Any white goods in an unfurnished contract do not need to be repaired by the LL. The LL does need to take broken white goods away though.

However, the OP is also concerned that her contract states that they have to replace broken electrical items. This seems an unfair contract term. However, the OP could source a second hand washing machine of equal age and price/quality. Ie if the washing machine is 3 years old but a Miele, the OP could buy a 3 year old Miele as a means of fullfilling her contract terms.

The lesson learned is to read the contract terms carefully before signing.

thomasbodley yes it is specified in the inventory. The control board blew...

pingu2209 the tenancy is unfurnished.

OP - I was a tenant for a year and the integrated dishwasher broke down. I expected the LL to just come out and fix it, my opinion was that that was the job of renting - no hassles as the LL has to repair items in his property.

It turns out that if the contract states unfurnished then anything that is in the property (even if in the inventory) is just an 'extra'. Items on the inventory are purely to ensure the tenant doesn't walk off with them or break them and then not say anything. My inventory included plant pots in the garden!

We had to pay for for our dishwasher to be fixed, which stuck in our throat! We could not replace as the kitchen was so old that the integrated dishwasher was not be replaceable!

For example, we also had curtains across the lounge patio doors and these were really really old - but on the inventory. The plastic curtain swish/pole was brittle through age and after us being there a few weeks it broke. As we rented the property unfurnished, we had to buy a new swish and then decided that we didn't like the curtains so bought a pole and curtains we did like. At the end of the tenancy we put up the new swish and old curtains and took our pole and curtains with us to the next property.

I do feel that your contract terms of replacing/repairing any electrical items is unfair. 'Electrical items' is a very wide term - does this include the shower or the boiler? How old are the electrical items in the house?

From my perspective at the time I felt the LL was having his cake and eating it - getting rent but no responsibilities of having to fix things.

As you intend to be there a long while, I would suggest trying to ask for the contract to be clarified retrospectively regarding listing the electrical items that you are expected to repair/replace.

In order to meet your current terms, a second hand washing machine on Ebay or Preloved may meet the requirements. A new washing machine may start at £400 but a second hand one may be £50!

I don't let my house with white goods for precisely this reason, but I am responsible for anything like the shower/boiler/mains going wrong and as l/l pay to have it fixed.

Pingu Where have you got your info? Have never come across your argument and would like to no more.

I've always been told (been a LL as well as tenant) that inventory lists everything that is supplied by the landlord for the tenant to use - ie if LL doesn't want to take responsibility for white goods, not to supply them.

Agree that lease should make clear LL's policy on repair of white goods. (They are not fixtures and fittings BTW, so still covered by an unfurnished lease).

know more, sorry, blimmin phone

Appliances are fixtures and fittings. Phone FFS, sorry again.

Have you checked the lease to see it says what the landlord says it does? Its a slightly odd clause for a lease but if its a long term rental then he might well have insisted on such a specific clause for a reason. The reason being that he doesn't want to be responsible for repairs. You really have to check your lease, and you should have done so before the lease started as this is a material term you should have familiarised yourselves with. The lease overrules the Inventory and what the letting agents say.

It seems that the definition of "electrical items" in the lease is unclear and really, a good lease should specify what these are. However unless it says "small electrical items" I would say its a clear case for it to include all electrical items, which presumption could be rebutted by evidence e.g. if other broken electrical items had been repaired or replaced by the landlord in the past.

The basic legal requirement in a leased property is to provide a wind and watertight property, and all variations are thereafter possible as the lease is a contract between the parties to it.

Appliances are not fixtures and fittings, as they are removable.

Okay so I looked it up; the position is confusing.

You need to establish whether your LL has contracted out of care for appliances. If s/he hasn't done so explicitly in your tenancy agreement, but has supplied the items and they are noted in your inventory, they are nonetheless responsible for their maintenance.

Landlordzone.co.uk is very helpful, recommend posting on there if you're still unsure.

If a property I rented out had integrated appliances I would fully expect to have to pay for any repairs (provided they weren't caused by the tennant not using them properly or in some other way damaging them). It's not like you can choose to use your own maching is it?

However, what is reasonable/not reasonable is irrelevant as you have a contract. All you can do is get the Agency to put it in writing what the contract actually means and see where you go from there. You need to get this point clarified and be sure both you and the LL are happy with it because otherwise you could be liable for the boiler etc... not something, which as a tennant you want!!

I wouldn't worry about having to move - if you are a good tennant your LL will want to keep you :)

So are doorknobs, nijinsky.

The test of whether something is contents or F&F is if it would need a tool to remove. This is how insurance companies define it.

My parents rent out a flat. The washing machine broke down the other week and they went out and bought a new one and had it fitted for the tenant (it was the same price as having old one fixed). I have rented in the past and if a washing machine has been provided it has always been the landlords responsiblility.

thomasbodley "The test of whether something is contents or F&F is if it would need a tool to remove. This is how insurance companies define it."

sigh points out that insurance companies do not make law. Governments and legislatures do. That is why solicitors have to threaten insurance companies with legal action so often for getting things wrong.

And lawyers don't agree either, nijinsky, which is why money is made arguing the case for and against.

There's a fair amount of disagreement on here, so it's fair to say this isn't a clear-cut case for the OP. Again, CAB and landlordzone sound like they could be more helpful resources for the OP than we're being by discussing the legalities but failing to provide the OP with a solution to her problem.

Sorry - I went to bed so only read your question this morning. It is a grey area. It is to do with it being Unfurnished. What does unfurnished mean? Sometimes it can mean carpets and flooring as well as curtains etc.

However, if they are supplied my view as the tenant was that the LL should repair them when broken down. Especially as my dishwasher was at least 15 years old and integrated!!!

However, the Unfurnished aspect meant that anything on top of unfurnished was an 'extra'.

It think that any tenant needs to read their contract carefully and if there are terms like repairing/replacing electrical items those items need to be listed as it could even be the boiler. Also the electrical items may be really old and replacing them would be 'betterment' for the LL.