to wonder if geriatric and psychiatric patients should be put onto specialist wards

[hardhatdonned]

I'm just watching dispatches and pairing it up with my own experiences of being a hospital in-patient several times I am wondering if IABU to wonder if geratric psych and psychiatric patients in general should NOT be placed on general wards with other non-psych patients? I had the misfortune of being on a mixed ward after two operations mixed in terms of gender and mixed in terms of psychiatric history and age - basically a general surgical ward and whilst recovering from quite serious surgery was witness to bed blocking dementia patients who required quite intensive specialist care from non-surgical wards.

IABU and selfish aren't i. But it really is distressing and upsetting when you're at your most vunerable. The rational side of me says IABU because everyone deserves fair and equal treatment but then part of me is petrified of ever being stuck on a ward with several patients with dementia again terrible isnt it.

Aha, I hadn't seen that.

I am saddened by this attitude that those with dementia have no place in our society.

Are you actually reading my posts stealth??

When asked to clarify which patients i meant i have done so. I do realise that there are many different types/classifications of psychiatric illness and reasons for being an inpatient.

Couldn't agree more Ismene

One piece of advice - medical insurance - everyone needs it, it's not a luxury any more, the standard of care in the NHS is a disgrace at times and peace and quiet to recover from surgery should be a given.
Back in the day there's no way the ward sister would have stood for what my friend has been through on labour ward this week, boyfriends staying over night, gossiping on mobiles into the early hours, TV's on without head phones early in the morning and late at night.
Either the sisters need more authority to tell people to STFU or else or individual rooms need to be offered to those actually wanting the sleep they need to get better again.

I am not dehumanising people, oh dear lord do people on this website not know how to read things?! I was asked to clarify a point so I did in the most consise way possible.

Unless you have been in a situation where you are in a lot of post operative pain from a major operation and having never been in a close confined space with one let alone several patients with dementia then I do not see how you can say that it is not a frightening and upsetting place to be.

It's not ignorance.

i think psychiatric patients and dementia patients need specialist mental health nursing care just like surgical patients need specialist surgical nursing care. Two completely different disciplines that shouldn't be mixed - ever.

The point of hospitals, last time i checked, was to rest and recuperate. There are a great wealth of issues that prevent this not least noisy patients of any mental ability or capacity.

You mean like a special type of physical health hospital that looks after the mentally ill when they are physically unwell????

Given that the current Govt are in the process of vastly reducing frontline nursing staff- I doubt whether this idea would take off...

But onceamai, a dementia patient may also be recovering from surgery.

I don't know what i'm proposing in all honesty, just throwing an idea out there to be discussed :)

why onceamai? why do general psychiatric patients with physical health issues need to be segregated?

I don't know of any specialist psych nurses who are also specialist surgical nurses. They are 2 different disciplines.

But inevitably sometimes dementia and psychiatric patients need surgery for physical problems, and are just as entitled to specialist post surgical care as anyone else.

Then could it not be possible for each surgical ward to have a psychiatric nurse permanently attached to it also? would that be more feasable?

at our local hosp we have a ward for older people with organic mental health issues and physical health needs. we're lucky I guess.

caring for demented patients isn't fucking rocket science. general nurses are trained to deal with these issues.

I doubt there is the funding for that at the moment. It always seems difficult to get funding for anything associated with dementia or mental health issues - partly I suspect because it is often hard for the sufferers to stand up for themselves and make demands, and also because as this thread shows, the general public doesn't seem to care much about those with dementia until they are personally inconvenienced...

Unless you have been in a situation where you are 1-1 with a patient with dementia on a surgical or medical ward whilst other patients openly swore at them or loudly referred to them as 'that nutter over there' whilst complaining to the other nursing staff that 'they shouldn't be allowed here' then I don't see how you can't see that talking about other people in this way is not dehumanising.

Tiredemma - I think that would an old style asylum then! Eeek!

Oooh i think thats unduly harsh. Perhaps the general public does care but, as with everything, prioritises what matters most to them and their families.

I have not read whole thread (find discussions like these quite distressing). My dear father (aged 92 and with mild dementia) spent his last 10 days on a general ortho ward and it was totally inappropriate.

He couldn't understand the noise, the non-stop visitors and what was going on around him. There were youngish patients recovering from traffic accidents who had large numbers of visitors all day long.

So it works both ways. His last words to me were "can't you do something?"

As he was dying, the staff finally decided to move him to a side ward but it was too late.

Personally, I think hospital wards were outdated 100 years ago and it is a disgrace that they are still so prevalent here.

When a friend had an accident when on holiday in France, he was accommodated in hospital in a single room which appeared to be the norm.

Ismene - i appreciate where you are coming from but having been a surgical patient on a ward with dementia patients on this did compromise my care. No one patient should come before any other in terms of the basic needs being met surely?

'caring for dementia patients isn't fucking rocket science' - who needs us specialised RMN's then........! If only I'd trained to be a real nurse

I don't think it's unduly harsh. One in three people over 65 will die with dementia. 62% of people leaving in care homes suffer from dementia. Dementia costs the UK £17 billion every year. The government spends 8 times more on cancer research than dementia research. I absolutely agree that cancer research should be a priority, but dementia research should too. More research, better support, better treatment, that's what is needed here. Not hiding people away in separate wards.

Hardhat, without knowing specifics (and I won't ask either) it is hard to know if or how your own care was compromised. If you think it was a particular problem or situation then perhaps you should discuss it with PALS or complain.

I still don't agree with your solution, but I do accept that it can be a difficult balance and one that wards do not always get right.

It always seems difficult to get funding for anything associated with dementia or mental health issues - partly I suspect because it is often hard for the sufferers to stand up for themselves and make demands, and also because as this thread shows, the general public doesn't seem to care much about those with dementia until they are personally inconvenienced...

Ok at the risk of being flamed alive, I would rather be shot like a horse than inflict myself with dementia on my family, from what I have seen the person has no comprehension of their own life, well being, no pleasure, no happiness they just exist and wear down their families.
Those dealing with the elderly generally have the patience of a saint, well the ones that were being kind, plenty of care assistants were unkind and mocking, hopeful none were abusive but it's actually in the "rule book" that as a care assistant you aren't allowed to catch a falling patient because you would risk injury to yourself so people actually step out of the way to let an elderly person fall onto the floor knowing they'll most likely break something.
I'm off to Switzerland long before that happens to me.

But there is more to life than cancer too.

The way i see it is the body gives up and the mind gives up. You can, at best, escape one but not both by the time you shuffle off this mortal coil.

I agree dementia funding and research should increase and so should neurological conditions - motor neurones, multiple sclerosis - or perhaps chronic conditions such as asthma, diabetes how about rheumatological conditions like Lupus, arthritis, fibromyalgia... the list goes on.