to wish people would learn how to ^debate^ things on here!

[seeker]

A small example - trivial in this case but typical of loads of discussions abotu all sorts of topics.

'i don"t think a 4 year old should have to wear a tie as part of his school uniform"

"Oh, i think school uniform is a really good idea - it's so much more difficult if they wear their own clothes"

The straw man is alive and well and living on mumsnet

I also think they should learn how to do italics properly as well.........

And to spell about.

I would love to see the quality of debate improve, particularly when it involves quoting, inference and leaping to wild conclusions based on very little substance and powered by great ire.
It's not going to happen.

Why waste your time debating with me? I am always right, so just give in and agree.

That's one of the reasons why debate isn't going to work well, especially on emotive topics.

If you want a debate, try posting outside AIBU - plenty of thoughtful threads around. And conversely, AIBU by stealth doesn't sit that well elsewhere.

It wouldn't take much effort by posters to think about where they're posting. But does it really matter?

surely, the question Am I Being Unreasonable is asking for opinions, not debate

YANBU. It would be amusing if it wasn't so frustrating.

It can be a good arena for a general discussion, but people's basic prejudices seem to inhibit thoughtful debate. I don't think it's MN though - look at Parliament

Yes would be good if people could give their opinion on a subject without feeling the need to personally attack anyone with an alternate point of view.

There seems a tendency for some to deliberately look for holes in a person's comments, infer slights where none are intended and to read and absorb from others comments only what they want to see, often ignoring what was actually said, and the context in order to create argument.

Shouldn't be about winning (brow-beating your 'opponant' into submission until they leave the thread) but unfortunately it often seems to be that way.

i posted here becaue i was looking for opinions - i don't expect reasoned debate on aibu!

So in your example the problem is that the second person is not addressing the question posed by the imaginary OP, but taking it to the far extreme: "no tie" becomes "no uniform at all".

Goblin I was joking!

I know!
But there are many people with very strong opinions about everything who truly don't see an advantage in considering an alternative viewpoint.

Teaching children without uniform would be a lot easier. No bother about changing for PE and we could just hose them down at the end of the day.

When I was at school they changed the uniform from blazer and tie to polo shirt and jumper but only for the year just starting so the older ones were still trussed up in blazers, the younger ones in jumpers. Now that was cruel.

[po-faced]

I just wish people would read carefully posts they reply to (and I am guilty of not doing it, too). So when someone says:

"My fat friend says she's exercising to lose weight but I don't believe her, should I say as much?"

Don't reply with

"I'm sure your friend knows she's fat"....er, doh, of course the friend knows, OP just said as much, didn't she! OP didn't ask what you're answering.

What is this straw man I see mentioned about the place?

Also, Godwin's law: can I have an explanation of that too please?

[ignorant emoticon]

There's a facetious very funny and short ... I think German book? About how to win debates by sneaky & disingenuous ways. About methods of distraction to undermine your opponent, etc. Written about 1900 iirc, but reprinted. Very very true but completely awful, too.

'I just wish people would read carefully posts they reply to'

I've just won 5 points on another thread for being picky about that.
Although for some reason the poster that awarded them to me seemed a little off about it. It is, however one of my bugbears.
That must be because I'm a pedant teacher.

Totally agree with you - there are some really good topics on Mumsnet and I enjoy the debates and the chance to look at things from a different point of view and yes, sometimes I do change my mind due to the 'quality' of the discussion and different opinions.

But I hate it when the discussion goes off at a tangent, when people clearly aren't keeping up to date with the thread, start mindlessly swearing and nit-picking irrelevant points etc etc

But I wanted a nice bunfight.

Straw man - you don't argue with what your oppenent is actually saying, you set them up as saying something really extreme and then attack that.

Godwin's Law - it's inevitable that eventually someone will say that the people on the other side are like Nazis. If you say this, you lose.

Thanks for the straw man explanation. I was called it the other day and didn't have a bloody clue what the other person was waffling on about.