To think that if you want to sell your house you do actually have to be a bit flexible and put yourself out a bit?

[wannaBe]

We're currently looking to move house. We've been fortunate in that we sold ours on the first viewing, but having sold a house before we have essentially put ourselves out to let people come and view it at all times of the day - and sometimes even at short notice. In fact I gave the agent a key as I would far rather not have shown people round and would prefer to let the agent earn their money.

Having sold ours now and looking for properties to buy I'm finding it's an absolute nightmare to get in to view some of them.

One house we've been trying to get to view for a week - first earlier this week and now at the weekend. The vender doesn't have a mobile and his landline doesn't have voicemail so the agent is unable to get hold of him. Second one had tennants in and they only allow people in on weekends. And the ultimate - we viewed a lovely house on Wednesday and were hoping to go back for a second viewing tomorrow. Now bearing in mind we don't live in the area so can't just pop round for a viewing - going to view properties involves having to make a four hour round trip. So I call the agent who calls me back five mins later and says that sorry, the venders are going away tonight and won't be back for a week, and no sorry they're not happy for the agent to have a key. Agent very apologetic and tbh couldn't believe that they're being like that, esp given the position we're in (STC, completed chain below us) which he says is rare in the current climate.

We are hoping to make a decision this weekend and are going to view two other properties, so the reality is that these people have potentially lost a sale of their house.

Now, how people choose to sell their houses is of course their perogative. but seriously, if you really do want to sell a house then it does involve a bit of effort and flexibility on your part.

'with tenancies like assured shorthold, landlords can't just give notice outside a break-clause period (unless there are arrears, etc.) if they only want to sell, whereas they have more rights to break a tenancy and give notice if they want to return to the property as their main residence (e.g. returning from overseas).'

Not true at all. With many short-assured tenancies, the assured part is only for 4 months out of the 6 months it covers. After that, the LL can serve notice, for whatever reason.

It's entirely possible to let out a house that is already on the market, I know someone living in one now. It's just that anytime after the 4 months, she can be served 60 day notice. She knows this and is fine with it, in fact will be moving out to relocate soon anyhow.

More than likely, though, the tenants have been been served their notice and know they need to move on.

Tenants aside, because I think that's derailing this thread and not entirely what you're getting at, then I totally agree with you. We're trying to buy and have sold our house and between estate agents and vendors are finding it totally impossible to buy and often really hard to even get in to view a property. It may be a buyers market but our experience has been the opposite.

Sorry, expat, I should have specified not after a break-clause period is entered. Thanks for picking me up on that; I'd rather not propagate inaccuracies! Our last tenancy was for a year, with a break-clause after 6 months. Interestingly enough, after we moved out, the buyers pulled out, so the letting agent (who was brilliant, and encouraged us to make use of our rights re: viewings) got in some short-termers. The place is now sold (for more than it deserved, but the short-term tenants would not have been as informed as we were! ).

Anyway, OP, if it's difficult to get viewings, point this out to the EAs and that will then be something for the owner to deal with, or put up with the consequences of.

"It may be a buyers market but our experience has been the opposite."

As long as interest rates remain low, people who are in negative equity, or who dislike or fear (for whatever reason) the idea of getting less than a certain amount for their property, will stay out of the market place, or only pretend to be in the market (e.g. with an unrealistically-priced house or flat). This restriction of the supply is artificially keeping prices up in some areas.

"Distressed sellers" are benefiting from this protection, and "forced buyers" (I'm thinking people selling through divorce, people with SN or SN children who need the freedom of their own property to make suitable adjustments, etc.), so it's not actually a real market at the moment, not in the classical economic sense.

My LL wanted to sell the house I rent from him last year but then changed his mind at the last minute which is why I'm still here. I personally couldn't give a toss about how difficult I must have made the process for him

No, I didn not want the agents having a key to MY home. No, I did not want random strangers traipsing through the house after 7 as my 3 year old goes to bed at this time. I actually have a life so no, I can't guarantee I'll be around at the weekend. LL wanted to give the agents a key to the house despite me saying no but the agents wouldn't do it this way unless I rang to confirm it was ok with me. Thank god they had common sense.

And actually WannaBe I would have happily moved out when my tenency ended I'd have had no bloody choice for a start.

Expat- YY to ove rpriced; big event here last year so EAs tried to capitalise and failed dismally, and now mass redundancies at only real employer in village (a Uni) and yet prices static and houses not moving as a result.

Guess problem is so many have neg equity.

I think I'd make a better fist of selling my house than any slimy agent we've used. I just go into switch off mode when they've ever showed us around anywhere.

I think the ultimate was when we viewed a house that was opposite a power station (!) and the agent told us the view from the master bedroom window was 'a bit like the Pompidou Centre'.

So I do think vendors should stick around if they're serious about selling. But maybe they're not serious about selling. Or have friends lined up for a private sale?

I can see your frustration but another one flying the flag for tenants. Our landlord sold our old flat when I was pregnant and with a toddler. Landlord was lovely actually (gave us our deposit back before we left so we could pay on the new place). But the EA was bloody annoying and even wanted to bring people round on a bank holiday. They forget that it is still our home. We only made so much effort because we had a good landlord.

Have any of you actually WORKED as an EA or even really know the first bit about the job?

If you did, you would not be calling them lazy idiots. Hardest working bunch of people I know, and honest to boot. They have to be nowadays.

Tenants sign a contract, it is not their house, and if the OWNER of that house wants to sell it and has given the correct notice, it is up to them. EA can enter a house with 24hr written notice IF it is in the contract - then tenants don't have to like it or agree, it can happen anyway because they have SIGNED to say they agree.

Stop bashing the EA.

I sold a house in the US and my Irish mum was shocked that we had to leave every time there was a showing. We had several parties through every week, sometimes three or four a day on weekends. We would disappear out the back door when we saw the cars draw up to the front. The RE agent left a locked keybox on our door and the buyers' agents would swipe a card through it and take out the keys for access. Showings could be up to half an hour but the RE office would call and book a block of an hour -- they gave us at least an hour's notice each time but usually longer than that, sometimes even a few days in advance. We would sit out in the car further up the street so we could get back home immediately after they left, and it got mighty cold there on winter days and nights. We sometimes ate dinner and did homework in the car. DS17 often decided to liven things up by farting, burping the alphabet, etc..

Had to keep the place as neat as a pin constantly (not a bad habit to get into) but I wonder how I would have managed with small children. Hope nobody ever opened the oven and found all the stuff I used to put in there at the last minute.

Renting in the US, you usually have to guarantee the landlord access at all times with minimum 15 minutes notice and agree to showings to new renters if you're going to vacate the flat. I remember having to scramble to get the oldest three DCs up from naps and out of an apartment with 15 minutes' notice so the landlord could show it to a prospective tenant -- DD2 was about 2 weeks old and DS had to be hauled out of bed and then carried to the car, too sleepy to walk down the stairs, followed by DD2 in her carseat. Expat, I should have appeared at the door in a dressing gown but I probably looked too zonked and exhausted and baggy under the eyes for any story about sex to be believable...

One seller restricted viewing times because they had small children, so no viewings after 5pm, which I think is difficult if you work. They sold the house quickly and very smugly we never viewed it first time round as DH could not view it after work in the first two days of viewings. We have two toddlers and have always allowed viewings at any time, but not into their bedrooms when asleep of course.

3 months later the house back on the market as buyers pulled out - we did get to see it (still with restrictive visiting hours), did not offer on it, and its still on the market 3 months later, I hope they have let some people see it now

Silverstar

MIGHT have signed; our contract gives 2 weeks (lovely Landlady; and of course we repay tenfold with decorating etc)

It is not their house; it is their home. And if someone wanted to come look here we'd be acommodating AROUND our needs- no matter how needy the buyer for X date, if we are not here / working / on a schoolrun whatever then we're not here are we? I woudln't for eg have a holiday cancelled for it. But i'd say when we were back and be as helpful when I could be around.

And LMAo that there is any profession populated entirely by decent hard working people: life ain't like that! there's always a mix. Anyone buying or selling gets to know who at their office is good and who not, just like with any other field.

Silverstar, if EAs are working hard, they are often hustling people who have no financial or emotional interest in getting a property shifted. Hard-working and honest are not necessarily a good thing (or even relevant, in the case of honesty) for everyone involved!

As for the fact that the agents work for the owner, that is also true, but many of these anecdotes are not about that. They are about the incredibly antagonistic situations, which these clashing interests can create, and which the OP may have fallen foul of without understanding it. That's all.

fwiw this isn't just about tennants - only one of the properties I wanted to view had tennants in it, and of course i do take on board the points made, and of course it's not up to the tennants to sell their house. But as a seller, why bother trying to sell a house if there's essentially not a hope in hell's chance of actually being able to have people view it.

One of the other properties the vendor just doesn't answer his phone and has no voicemail - again, why bother?

And this afternoon I have encountered a new one - rang to book viewings on two properties only to be told that they're both under offer but "we don't update the records as such until they've exchanged contracts in case anything goes wrong," again, wasting time (and money) of people who would be genuine buyers who, if they just updated the records wouldn't have taken the time to ring and enquire about said properties...

Whoever said that it is a buyers market is talking rubbish, imho.

Oh, yes, the sellers not making themselves available are just silly and don't deserve to have potential buyers chase round after them. That time is over.

P.S. mathanxiety - how horrible! I hope you're settled more comfortably now.

Now the one with no phone spunds like a PITA

We were looking at a house ( me and eexPLOL, aaaages ago then) and couldn't get a response; turned we'd been given wrong number and estate agents not passing on messages so I popped a note through door and had a viewing and offer in within 24 hours.

WRT to the tenant (sorry, sorry) I would say that somoene with a good LL will usually help them out: and I reckon a bad LL would be the type to mess about in a chain as well so best avoided?

And Math- blimey thank goodness we're not there! Have a gaggle of asd kids so an hour's notice is in no way enough to prepare them- showed ds4 his birthday cake yesterday, he might try it tomorrow LOL.

but pmsl at "If you did, you would not be calling them lazy idiots. Hardest working bunch of people I know, and honest to boot. They have to be nowadays." of course there are some honest estate agents out there, like the one who advised me that a house I wanted to view needs £50k of work doing to it as it has subsidance in the kitchen, but let's face it the majority don't actually do an awful lot for the extortionate amount of money it costs to use them bar take a few pictures and speak to some vendors/viewers. In the past couple of weeks I have viewed seventeen houses, and I've only seen three estate agents. The rest have all been done by the vendors - yes some insist, but it seems the norm that if you're viewing at certain times of the day then the vendors are expected to do the viewing. And we pay these agents - why?

Yes they have to be a bit more honest these days but this is a new thing and old habbits die hard.

Most agents I know advertise all their properties as being available, right up to exchange. This is because then they have a list of people who are interested should anything go wrong with the sale. Plus, the agents may have just taken something else on that you can view instead. See? Makes sense really. Also, some vendors insist that the house is kept as availbable until exchange if they are not too sure about the commitment of the buyer. Most of the time viewings will not be done, just people's details taken.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it is not always the EA fault. Every Saturday without fail I would have people call me at 11.30 asking for viewings that day - you are joking, right? Saturday is the busiest day of course, and all our appointments were booked by Thursday - we are not playing games, we would love to show you, but we simply have no time, or else the vendor (or tenant) requires notice. But people just think we are there to drop everything and show them a house right then, as little Jonny is at football/party/whatever later.

Silverstar, I'm afraid you are incorrect about only having to give 24 hours notice if it's in the contract. Tenants have the right of "quiet enjoyment" of the property. A landlord can put what they like in the contract but anything other than access for emergency purposes, for example, to fix a gas leak, would be treated by the courts as an unfair contract term and therefore it cannot be enforced. There's a load of case law on tenants rights in this respect. Some standard letting agents contracts are a hoot, there are many terms that aren't enforceable, for anyone having difficulties like this I'd suggest the CAB website they have a lot useful information on rental contracts.

WannaBe - we have to agree to disagree - I am sorry that that is your experience of EA - I have worked in admin in EA's for 15 years and have found it all above board, and as I say, full of dedicated hard working people.

hmmmm as I say have worked in the business for many years, so think I am right..... mind you, I can always learn I suppose!

Right of quiet enjoyment is an absolute yes.

Of course many tenants are more helpful but it's the right in law.

I absolutely refused to do viewings unless it was a third one - that's what I paid the sodding EA to do. Given they were going to make close on £10k on my sale, I think that was fair enough.

I would allow them to take people during the day (if I'd had notice) and at the weekend. I couldn't do evenings because my DS went to bed at 7pm but that didn't seem to be too much of an issue. It's bonkers not giving the estate agent a key.

the problem for tenants is that they think because they sign a contract it must be correct. To be honest I am usually pretty accommodating as it works both ways and my landlord is good about getting repairs done etc. If I was selling a property though with tenants I'd try do it after they've left as there is no way you could expect them to keep the place in a show home state, mine never is!

Tenants have to be given reasonable notice.
The law and all.
Other than that - yanbu