To expect people on benefits not to be tricked out of their money

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Sorry for pinching the headline from this piece in the newspaper but couldn't think of a better way to put it.
here

I work with the unemployed and have seen so many cases of utter hopelessness brought about by this target (if indeed it is a target).

Once Job-seekers stops ,even for just one week,then the knock-on effect with regard to housing benefit ,council tax benefit etc is huge.

This is such a disgrace but no-one will o anything about it because ,somehow, the unemployed must deserve it.

But those who sit in judgement should know that any of the people I work with were once (and sincerely hope to be again) middle management types who lost out in the redundancy stakes.

It could be you next.That is the scary thing.

When me and my OH were on benefits they kept trying to screw us over. We were attending interviews in London, Brighton and elsewhere around the country and we'd give them the dates weeks in advance, and the week before each of our interviews our 'weekly meeting' was changed to the day of our interview Our JSA was £40 a week each btw.

They continuously gave us jobs to apply for that we couldn't actually do if we got them; such as jobs in the middle of nowhere which we'd need a car to get to or jobs which required qualifications we didn't have. They told me I had to apply for a Thomsons Overseas Rep job too which was nice, and also telling me that I had to apply for an evening job which would finish at gone 9/10pm each night for which I'd have to walk through either an unlit back alley route of an industrial estate for fifteen minutes or a local park which had a good few rapes in the month or two before for fifteen/twenty minutes to get to a train station.
(I later discovered a safer route, but when I explained my scepticism of taking that job they offered me no alternative but "You have to apply for it and if you get it you have to take it").

They also told me that my benefits would be taken if I did any voluntary work for they treated it as if it were a real job I was getting paid for.

We had a lot of trouble from the beginning with JSA, it took them over two months to give us our first payment. We signed on at the beginning of November 09, both of us skint from having just left £80 a week jobs and we didn't get our first payment until mid-January 2010.

The hoops you have to jump through for JSA are ridiculous, and whilst I agree that people need to come off of them and that they need to tighten it up and make the system work to stop abusers of the system getting away with it, they are 'tightening' it in completely the wrong way. People who abuse the system are still able to do so, whilst those who are in desperate need of the help are getting screwed over.

Whatever: You have a fair point about Tracy, the government should be focussing on making it easier and better for her to be in work, even if it is part-time. Which is part of the problem I think. For some people, being on benefits would bring in more money than having two parents working full time, which is stupid. Surely we should be promoting work ethics instead of living on the dole? Can they not organise some scheme which benefits everybody? Such as free childcare places for a few days for part-timers, the childcare employees being trainees on benefits gaining a qualification out of their work and sending benefits recievers out to do work for their money which will benefit them?

I think that's what drove me mad about being on the dole, not being able to do anything. You should have to do some form of community service to gain your benefits, be it a few horus in a charity situation a week or even just litter picking and cleaning the streets (and if you have kids, maybe helping a local M&T group of something similar?). That way you're out of your little box (as the home becomes after being stuck in it) and doing something good for you and the local community, possibly gaining qualifications and definately gaining something to put on your CV instead of having an empty space.

They have being screwing people over for years. My friend finally managed to get an interview but it clashed with signing on. She called to change her appointment explaining why but was told it couldn't be changed and she would lose benefits if she didn't attend. She said I can't go to the interview then and she said that she would lose her benefits if she didn't attend the interview. Not being physically able to be in 2 different towns at the same time does not equal laziness

I have just remembered what happened when my mum's friend when she was made redundant in the 1980s. About 10 weeks into receiving benefit she was snootily told she obviously wasn't making any effort to find work so she should bring in any documentary evidence so they could analyse it and tell her where she was going wrong. They added they were sure the problem was she had done nothing. Next day she got a lift in walked in sat a full archive box on the persons desk and asked for help bringing in the rest. In all she delivered 10 completely full archive boxes. They were full of job adverts, copies of completed application forms, notes from background research into the jobs she was applying for, copies of any replies she had received so far and a log of which stage each application was at. She said that she expected a full analysis by the next morning and walked out

xstitch: brilliant, I wish I did something like that now when dealing with the snobby-er JC people, though most were nice I must admit!

I remember my OH's Mum telling me that she signed on briefly when she was younger and pregnant with OH and his twin brother, and at about 6/7 months pregnant they told her that she had to apply for this particular job. It was a window cleaning job in which the advert specifically stated that one must be in a fit condition to climb a ladder...

Clearly this is a massive problem and shouldn't be happening (although it happens all the time when targets are given - schools, NHS etc.)

Just being devils advocate the people that work in the JC's dont get an easy ride either - low salary, poor treatment from many of the people they see (a relative of mine had a knife pulled on her, was threatened with a gun and the JC she worked in was fire-bombed - not a great environment) and they are squeezed by management and the pressures of genuinely trying to help the people they see.

They are not all 'snobby' and full of themselves

Rockmaiden - that is awful, your poor friend - what else could she do other than to send in her CV!?

Wally - I'm sure it must be an awful place to work, I've just spoken to my disability advisor who can't refer me to Remploy until I see him next week. I went to see him earlier this week but due to computer problems I was turned away at the door and told to re book as he was being sent to a different branch that day (the computer problems meaning he couldn't look up my number to ring me before I paid for a train ticket and made the journey). In February last year I was able to self refer to Remploy.

All my advisor could say was that everything has changed for the worst. I'm not entitled to benefits as I live with DP and am too young to have paid enough NI (stupidly I became sick before I'd worked full time for several years, stupidly before that I was at Uni and School and only did part time jobs which didn't pay enough to be taxed when doing my GCSEs, A levels and Degree) so now I have to waste his time to see him, just to be referred to an agency who can help me when 14 months ago I could self refer. Crazy.

It truly is awful. This happened to my DP a few months ago, but I didn't realise it was this widespread! And picking on younger claimants who are most likely depressed and don't really know the system, as well as people with learning difficulties? Despicable

DP does everything the Jobcentre ask him to do, he jumps through all their stupid hoops and fills in all their ridiculous forms without complaint. He applies for every single job that he is capable of.
The advisor he was talking to tried to push him into applying for a job he could do, but has no official qualifications for (electrics-related. Wouldn't it be illegal for him to work with electrics without adequate qualifications?). When he told them that there was no way he could do it, they just went "oh well" and he thought no more of it.

Then a month later we got a letter saying that our money was going to be docked until JUNE. Cue massive panic as we need money to finish carpeting our new place, get our oven fitted and, obviously, to feed DS ... until they got the hardship payments sorted (took almost a month), me and DP existed basically on ham sandwiches so that we could be sure to have money spare so DS could eat.

The reason they gave for docking this money? DP hadn't applied for that job. That he'd clearly told them he wasn't able to do. The advisor put the job on the system without telling DP - if that's not deceit with intent to get our money docked,I don't know what is.

XStarGirl

That's crazy. By their logic I should be applying for jobs as a surgeon. Does anyone want a dyspraxic social sciences graduate who can't tell the time to operate on them?... methinks not.

It's mad, I want my Drs to have a medical degree, my lawyers to have a law degree, my plumber to have studied plumbing etc. I don't want my lawyer doing my plumbing and my plumber monitoring my health and my Dr writing my will.

It's utterly mental! It happened to me too,back when I was signing. Feel a bit sorry for the JC workers - the stress from every target they get given is essentially passed on to the people signing on, which is then passed back to the advisor through complaints/grumpy behaviour. You just can't win.

You should make an official complaint xstargirl That is dangerous and deceitful behaviour.

wallywithabrolly Although I think that they have a difficult job in the job centres I don't think it excuses the behaviour described on here. I understand that some clients will be deliberately stroppy and do anything to avoid working. That does not give them the right to treat everyone as if that is what they are doing.

I have in my jobs had to deal with the public, many of whom have been vulnerable at the time. Common sense has to be used, there is a very big difference between someone who can't be bothered and someone stating they are not prepared to do something illegal. I only work a few hours a week in my current post hence the job hunting (I took the first job I could get yet I am being penalised for doing the 'right' thing). I get sworn at every week, it is not unusual to have my life threatened (and the life of my family). Over the years I have been physically assaulted,threatened with a shot gun, a knife, rape. Yet I can honestly say I have never sworn at any of the public, never twisted facts to make life even more difficult for the trouble makers and definitely not for the law abiding members of society.

Surely the nice members of staff in the job centre must be annoyed at their colleagues for doing things like this. It is part of what makes people annoyed at the organisation as a whole. The powers that be really should be made to realise what is going on.

Destroying people mentally (and physically when they can no longer eat) is not a way to get them back into gainful employment. Nor does penalising someone for doing voluntary work help people gain useful skills. It definitely does not meet the ideals of this supposed 'big society'

Does anyone know if there's a time limit for the benefits people to sort their lives out?
I rent out part of my house. Tenant is made redundant, gets new job, laid off again, gets new job, laid off again, gets new job, laid off again, all last year. So claims benefits each time she's laid off. All fine until time 3 when they say she's not entitled to HB. She points out she's still living in the same flat. They agree to let her appeal. By this time claim 4 is finally being paid until one day she gets a letter asking what facilities she shares with me (OK, but nothing's changed since the first claim) - and cancelling HB until this is resolved!

She phones them up and is told only a letter from me will suffice. So I phone up - their systems are down but a woman is only too happy to have someone she can help and dictates the exact words needed to ensure HB is reinstated. I email.
Week later, no money received. They eventually confirm the claim is reinstated but need another '10 working days' to give her any money! And even then it's late. So no rent money for a month just because they had a query.
Six months later, still no news on the appeal.

The system needs to get sorted so that people can have a couple days work and then smoothly be back on benefits without risking their whole financial house of cards tumbling down. This goes treble if you have kids and 10 times if you have disability!

Most of the individuals I've met in benefits offices are OK but the system is set so one tiny typo in 50 pages of forms can bugger up someone's life and none of them have the authority to fix it.

Friend of mine works for the benefits agency and it's true that it's not a nice place to work. Some of her colleagues are downright nasty - not only tricking benefits claimants but trying to do down the other workers, because of the threat of being laid off themselves. She had a 'colleague' lie and claim she'd left client files in an unlocked drawer, which means disciplinary procedures. They are dragging their feet about arranging the disciplinary meeting, which means her contract won't be renewed - you can't be kept on if you have outstanding disciplinary proceedings. So nasty colleague has one less rival for keeping her job, even though my friend has every expectation of being cleared.

I wouldn't trust an organisation that encourages that sort of behaviour amongst staff to treat clients decently.

edam I guess of all places you would be snookered if you tried to claim for unfair dismissal.

We had problems when DH lost his job a couple of years ago. We rang up, and they asked if I could work. I can't, due to serious illness, so they said he should apply for JSA and I should apply for ESA. Then they took weeks to pay it, so I rang back. To be told I should have applied for ESA and put him as a dependant. So we did. Then they wrote back (bear in mind it takes them two weeks to do anything) saying they needed DH's sick note, so I had to ring again to say that he was capable of work, and was looking for it. At which point we got accused of fraud as he should have claimed JSA with me as a dependant. As HB, CTB and so on was not being paid until the other clain was sorted out, we were left begging and borrowing money off relatives to keep our home. Luckily our MP stepped in and we got back pay and £50 compensation, but the whole thing was a shambles.

A very small percentage of those on jobseekers 'don't bother to keep their end of the deal'. When DP was on jobseekers before, they paid him literally at their leisure, one time not paying him anything for over 10 weeks and then when they did pay him, it was at a reduced rate. Why? Because of a mistake on their end - they had lost something and decided that they should punish him for it. They also wouldn't listen to anything he had to say, ignoring the fact the bus was his only means of transport an hour away, and making his appointments extremely early.

They treat people like scum. I went in to the Jobcenter with him a few times and was shocked at the attitude of some of the staff. If you complained or went against them in any way, the security would escort you out. Leaving a message of 'Listen to us with no objections, or else'.

It shocks and upsets me that other human beings feel they can treat others like that. Especially those who are supposed to be helping and supporting the people.