To ask whether or not people here believe in homeopathy?

[DaisyLovesMetronidazole]

I don't at all.

However, I'm not out for a bunfight!

Just curious, as was surprised by the response of a certain group to this question today.

"Summation:in a nutshell homoeopathy does sweet fa except fleece the gullible and needy"

like I said -- making stuff up

of course homoeopath has no risk,no active ingredient.quasi-science marketing spiel by a salesperson desperate to sell to you

ZackandJakesMuma, I've said earlier in the thread that I'm sure the placebo effect is active in all forms of treatment. The difference is that for a drug to be prescribed in the NHS it not only has to have show that it is more effective than a placebo - through clinical trials- it also has to be shown to give good value for money, ie it has to have a better effect on a greater number of people than any pre-existing cheaper drugs. This is why some cancer treatments aren't provided by the NHS- they are just too expensive to justify using them when they will only help a small minority of patients.

*It's a question of honesty. Right. As opposed to making people better. Right.

And yet, you don't seem to have read any research on the impact of honesty on placebo. Seeing as this is so central for you it might be an idea.*

That seems needlessly aggressive, I've read a lot on the topic because I find placebo fascinating - but the point is that it is the placebo effect that is fascinating and emphatically not the pretend cure, in this case homeopathy.

MillyR- The definition of Democracy is surely that everything is considered with equal judgement and without prejudice. I would certainly hope that in an enlightened society that this is the case,

No risk, but a benefit. What's to not like?

take the prove homoeopathy works challenge then,gather your evidence,assert its credibility.oh hang on i see no one has doene so,not even any of the awarding bodies - wonder why they cannot prove efficacy of homeopathy?

ZJM, no, because in order for everything to be considered equally, social, economic and political conditions have to be in place for those considerations to take place.

It seems clear that there are failings in conventional medicine due to problems in the economic system, and failings in homeopathy due to its inability to participate in a shared scientific knowledge base within international understanding of science.

if anyone can show that homeopathy works, the James Randi Educational Foundation will pay them the million-dollar prize... so far no winners

You can't prove anything with any kind of healing system, medical or otherwise. Quite apart from the fact that each persons experiences, illnesses, reactions and successes are entirely subjective, there is also nothing to be found but comparable margins of percentages. Proof has nothing to do with it.

MillyR- So conclusively we find ourselves to be Nihilists?

An ethical clinical trial will compare the treatment to the best existing treatment, not placebo.

If I have a headache I don't want a pill that works better than placebo. I want a pill that works better than aspirin, or paracetamol, or ibuprofen. ("Better" in this instance includes equal in effect but with fewer side effects.)

If a homeopathic treatment is only a placebo then it can only be justified in cases when there is no other treatment that works better than placebo surely?

Agree about the ethics of placebo use. It's a thorny question, but interestingly placebos have been sometimes shown to work even when the patient knows that they're getting a placebo so necessarily a case of duping the patient.

No, I don't see what nihilism has to do with anything. We work towards making sure everyone is educated to a reasonable level so that they have a basic level of understanding and an active participation in shaping societal structures.

We cannot as individual make decisions about the entirety of society. So we work at the structures so other individuals can work on the parts of society that we are not expert in.

I know quite a bit about teeth. I don't know much about feet. But I don't run around with my pants on my head saying that feet are meaningless and that anyone could be right about them. I have to have confidence in the societal structures governing the understanding of feet.

zack you can prove specific drugs reduce and treat symptoms.simple baseline before and after clinical observations.for example statins reduce LDL cholesterol,this can be demonstrated by taking LDL readings.

So, you have faith in some things and not others, based on how much you think you know about those things. This does not by definition mean that what you know is right, or true. The fact that you have a bit of knowledge about some things does not qualify you to dismiss others. As I said, a dangerous road.

scottishmummy- that is demonstrating effect, not cause?

The pharmacology of HMG-CoA Inhibitors is actually quite well understood, Zack. It's very interesting.

i have bit of knowledge of reiki.its wooh-wooh rubbish i feel well able to dismiss it without longitudinal in-depth analysis. the premise of it is so daft,is obviously shite

i include
astrology
herbalists
colour wavers
in same its a ridiculous premise,therefore it is shite

hmg coa reductase inhibitors. it's late. sorry.

Daisy- Do please elaborate.

Zack, demanding absolute proof is the the last resort of the charlatan. Conventional medicine can demonstrate probability of success based on data collected through double blind trials , and also results. Cataract surgery is one example, as are heart bypass operations. Homeopathy has no equivalent successes to offer, apart from the ever expanding bank accounts of its' practitioners.

ZJM, there are different kinds of faith. Almost everyone has faith in the expertise of others, when that expertise is controlled by a democratic system.

I have faith that the bus timetable will be loosely abided by so that DS gets to school tomorrow. I have faith that my electrician has appropriate knowledge based on his qualifications so that my house does not burn down. I have faith that Russia does actually exist and is not a figment of other people's imagination. All of these concepts exist within societal structures we have collectively agreed upon.

Homeopathy does not. The homeopathic industry refuses to exist within the same knowledge structures that the rest of society uses to justify faith in the expertise in others.

zack conventional regulated medicine has demonstrably proved its worth as a treatment medium.homoeopathy has not,and never will

scottishmummy- Those are your opinions, good for you. I like green, but not orange. Your point is..?

Redbin- I didnt demand proof, scottishmummy did, if you read through?