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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think this is racist?

47 replies

tammymunday · 31/03/2011 10:48

Upstairs neighbour having loud party again. I have asked politely that they turn it down as has woken baby me and partner up and is 2am.

He says "i dont like your culture" about 3 times.

Stewing over it now. I think this is somewhere very near racism, if nout outright racist - AIBU???

OP posts:

Original poster

tammymunday · 31/03/2011 10:49

not

OP posts:

GypsyMoth · 31/03/2011 10:50

did you confront hin at 2 am??

SenoritaViva · 31/03/2011 10:52

I am not sure I even understand what he is trying to imply. Is he saying that he 'puts up with' noise regarding your 'culture' (i.e. from worship) and therefore you should put up with his noise.

Just trying to clarify what he meant.

Whether it's racist or not I would still say he is a disrespectful arse.

Vicky2011 · 31/03/2011 10:52

I think you already know the answer. Yes, it's racism

BlooferLady · 31/03/2011 10:52

No.

"I don't like your race" is racist.

also, at 2am I suspect a) he didn't know what he was saying and b) you didn't know what you were hearing.

Sympathies on the shitty neighbour tho.

pgpg · 31/03/2011 10:54

YANBU to want them to turn their music down, but I don't think the remark itself is racist - it doesn't actually make any sense! Their attitude/demeanour towards you may lead you to believe they have racist feelings, but only you will know that. I don't think this remark on its own means anything.

Inconsiderate neighbours? Yes. Racist? Shouldn't think so, on this evidence.

Claz1001 · 31/03/2011 10:54

Or is he saying that because of your culture you don't tolerate loud noise in the middle of the night?? He wouldn't like my culture very much either then.

worraliberty · 31/03/2011 10:55

OP are you missing a chunk of text or something?

Maybe it's just me but the two don't 'connect' if you know what I mean.

How did the conversation get from "Can you turn it down please, you've woken us up" to "I don't like your culture"

GypsyMoth · 31/03/2011 10:58

is he saying he wont turn it down because he doesnt like your culture?

did he turnn it down in the end?

Birdsgottafly · 31/03/2011 11:01

'Culture' might be a slang word for attitude or similar. These sort of stupid changes are happening daily within speach. Contact the environmental health and your landlord if it isn't a one off.

OTheHugeManatee · 31/03/2011 11:02

'I don't like you as you're brown/pink/green/whatever' is racist.

'I don't like your culture' is culture-ist, but race and culture are self-evidently not the same thing.

worraliberty · 31/03/2011 11:18

Yes I agree it's totally not racist to not like someone's culture.

It's a little odd though and 'I don't like that part of your culture' would probably have been a clearer way of expressing it.

pinkthechaffinch · 31/03/2011 12:20

he might not be a racist but he sounds like a bigot.

Birdsgottafly · 31/03/2011 12:29

If culture is not a slang word (as i suggested in my first post) then discriminatory language has been used. For me this would not be an issue after one incident but if it continues and your are in council / HA accomodation then it is covered under the law. It is illegal to discriminate or abuse someone because of their cultural or ethnic background, it comes under hate crime. I would still just go down the noise pollution route.

FabbyChic · 31/03/2011 12:32

Personally if this was persistant at 2am I would be calling the police and making a complaint about the noise, I wouldn't even talk to a neighbour who was doing that they clearly have no sense loud music at 2am when they have neighbours.

SnowieBear · 31/03/2011 12:40

Fabby police won't want to know, this is an area "devolved" to Council's control. Environmental Team at the Council is the way to go, the process to stop the noise is longwided and exhausting. Been there, only stopped when they (finally!!!!) moved.

LDNmummy · 31/03/2011 13:01

Where is neighbour from?

And was he drunk? Wierd comment IMO, what else was said? Maybe it needs contextualising cos I don't get it.

I am trying to understand what it has to do with you complaining about too much noise. Does his culture allow this kind of behaviour?

I can't say if it is racist but it certainly is rude. Race is about race, and culture is about culture. They are two very different things as people can be of the same race but have polar opposite cultures. Thats why I am a bit baffled by his comment and what he meant.

Any further info on the conversation you had with him OP??

Original poster

tammymunday · 31/03/2011 19:06

right, ok the deal was, he had been making alot of noise, finally i went out to talk to him to explain patiently (not angrily) that he had woken my child up for the third time that night, ignored my polite text asking to keep it down two hours earlier, ignored my phone call an hour earlier and ignored me ringing on his door half an hour before... and the party continued till 2am. at this point he came out on the street calling loudly to the taxi driver which would have woken me up had i not been awake anyway becuase of the noise, which is why i went outside.

he jsut kept saying it was his right to have people over, and he didnt like my culture. his english isnt brilliant it is true and he was fairly drunk. i am white english british he is ecuadorian. i guess he does not like living in this country becuase of the anally repressive attitude towards late night fun and the such, and he is probably homesick and i do feel for him, but it seemed to me that the impllication was that i, by dint of being white english british embodied what he did not like about it here.

in general he is a sweet guy and his girlfriend was mortified.

what i feel is, is that it would not be acceptable for me to say that to him, would it? and what would happen if i was black/ asian etc??
is it just ok to say that because i am british english white, whatever?

then i was thinking that culture and race are not so separate, that my race as an english person is represented by my culture, which is what he doesnt like.

which is why i feel it was an expression of deeply felt dislike for the english/ england/ britain. whcih is why it felt racist. which is why i am even more pissed off than i was! but felt like ive been unreasonable to be so upsest. thus the post here.

OP posts:

TysonNobdie86 · 31/03/2011 19:12

I completely understand your feelings in the last post, white english are never allowed to feel someone has been racist towards them

fedupofnamechanging · 31/03/2011 19:21

My view on this is if he isn't happy here, he is free to leave!

It is rude to play loud music in the middle of the night and cause a disturbance to your neighbours. Some place do have more activity going on at night time, but England isn't one of them. He should adapt to what is the 'norm' here, as I would expect a British person to do if they chose to live in another country.

LDNmummy · 31/03/2011 19:25

I agree with you that it is highly offensive, I would be incensed if someone said that to me about my culture like that.

But TBH, he was not talking about your race, he was talking about what he considers to be the more uptight characteristics of English culture. That doesn't mean he is racist, being racist is different to that.

For instance, there are things within my own culture's (I have more than one), that I do not like. But I am not self loathing of my race, I just don't like those particular things about my culture's.

Racism is more about hating on the basis of genetics as opposed to culture, and the belief that one race/ culture is somehow superior to another.

I would say he doesn't like English culture, but is not racist. He may not like English culture but that does not mean he doesn't like English people IYSWIM. I guess it is more the sense of superiority thing I am thinking of too, like disliking English culture may not mean he thinks it beneath him, just not what he likes.

If it was just an outright hate of English culture and/ or people, I would call that racism. Or if he had preconcieved idea's of English people or culture that were very negative and/ or painted English culture as beneath his, I would also see that as racist.

But he doesn't have to like English culture, it doesn't necessarily make him a racist, it is more about the extent to which those feelings run IMO.

OTheHugeManatee · 31/03/2011 19:26

Tell him if he's sick of the uptight English he should move to Switzerland. They're well known for their relaxed attitude to noise: in some apartment blocks in Zurich you're allowed to flush your loo all the way up to 10pm.

LDNmummy · 31/03/2011 19:36

"I completely understand your feelings in the last post, white english are never allowed to feel someone has been racist towards them"

Actually I disagree, as a person of mixed heritage, I feel racism runs both ways. Though I do feel that one has been born out of anger and resentment towards opressive nations.

I think it is because the English dished out so much racism for so long, that people tend to see it as a "well now you are getting a taste of your own medicine" situation and TBH, a lot of it has been built out of the aforementioned type of anger so people see it as justified at times.

I don't think that makes it ok though, and I think English people have just as much right as anyone else to feel like they are being racially discriminated against. I think there are times when it is just not taken as seriously because it is not that common or entrenched.

If that makes sense...

MillyR · 31/03/2011 19:36

Racism is not about hating people on the basis of their genetics. There is, for example, no genetic difference between the Hutus and the Tutsis. You cannot possibly know what somebody's genetic code is by looking at them. Racism can be about someone's appearance or it can be about their ethnicity which is partially and sometimes entirely cultural.

Fortunately for the OP, she is not an ethnic minority in the UK, and her 'culture' is protected by law. The law doesn't care about what time it is acceptable to have a party at if you are part of Ecuador culture, it cares about acceptable levels of noise in the dominant culture (which is not a loud party at 2am, so phone your council and get it sorted out.

LDNmummy · 31/03/2011 20:17

When I said genetics I meant more like dominant features and traits that identify someone as belonging to a particular racial grouping, not their genetic code

I also said that it is more about that , not wholly about that but I accept that that was an incorrect statement as both play an equal part. I do agree that culture is a big part of it but more in the sense of feeling one's own culture is superior to another's, not just from a mild dislike. I also said there is a difference between a mild dislike of certain aspects of a culture and hate of a culture. So I did point out that culture does play a big part, but having a dislike of certain characteristics of another culture doesn't necessarily make you a racist.

And as I said, either way, it is a highly offensive and unecessary comment and the OP has every right to be upset. And yes MillyR you are right, he should be going by the rules of the country in which he is staying in's culturally acceptable codes of etiquette (hope i spelled that right).

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