Anger at inappropriate behaviour! Advice needed.

[Broffy]

A few day's ago my 4 year old DD spent the day at my very best friend's house whilst i was working, She has 2 DS's one 3 and one 10. The next day as we were sitting together my DD was being a bit silly and kissing me and putting her tongue in my mouth which i said 'stop being daft that's horrid' she then said something that my friends DS1 had said to her which was very worrying indeed!(This was something that she would not know about to make up)
I called my friend as soon as DD was in bed and told her what had been said. She went off to talk to DS1, who has denied saying anything like this and had said they were playing a kissing game but the kissing was like pecking kissing not open mouthed or tongue touching. He also said he was playing with his bit's when the younger children went into his room so she may have seen him. I don't believe him at all and i'm finding this very difficult as i don't want my DD to go near him again, i'm so angry, friend has had very stern words with her not so DS don't get me wrong but now my DD has got information and thing's in her head that a 4 year old girl should not have!! what if she repeat's this at school to her friends that then go on to tell their mum's!!

I have a 10 year old ds and a 6 year old dd and would hit the roof in your position or that of the other mum.

I understand children experiment but a 10 year old and 4 year old is wrong.

Oh I feel for you :(

We had a similar worrying situation with DD over the behaviour of a boy in her class, also sticking tongues in mouths & some of the other stuff she came home with that he was doing - even worse, though thankfully as it was in a School situation, from a sexual point of view we at least knew it couldn't get too out of hand in what he was doing with other kids - if that makes sense, though he was also a bully, but thats another story as such - thankfully he is no longer in her School

I'd keep an eye on her, see what she comes out with further, watch her mood etc & it might be a good idea to have a word with her Teacher too, just incase, & if worst comes to worst (which I doubt from what you've written) they will have the back up of a counselling service who can help her with it all

If its any reassurance my DD was older than yours @ 6 when it all started, she did end up seeing the School counsellor, but that was also because of the aggression she'd witnessed from the boy towards staff, being bullied by him as well as things like being pinned by her throat & having his tongue forced into her mouth :(

A while down the line & she is fine, remembers the boy as a bully & smashing the class room up etc, but has dealt with it all really well & remembers little else - if anything in a weird way its done her good in that she's very mature in how she deals with conflict

it is all a bit "playing Drs & Nurses" which all kids do to a degree...(eek), but with him being so much older its more of a worry & as such I would keep your DD away from the older boy though, at least until you feel sure he IS okay, I'm a firm believer in trusting your instincts

Good Luck

From experience I would also advise gently coaxing her into seeing that he BOYS behaviour is inappropriate, I wouldn't personally hesitate to use words such as, naughty, bad & wrong in the circumstance, whilst making sure DD understands its HIS behaviour that is wrong, not hers, but she that shouldn't copy him

I wouldn't let her near him again tbh.

Him saying about playing with his bits makes me think there is more to it and he is trying to cover himself.

I know a lot of 10 year old boys and am pretty certain none of them would do this to a 4 year old.

Where has a ten year old boy got these ideas from? Especially enough to actually try it on another person?

I've got to admit purple that crossed my mind too -

with what happened with my own DD - in the very beginning with only the very mild stuff that was going on - I spoke with an old friend who is a Child Psych & works with young offenders - her take on it was - the School need to be alerted, because at best he has been exposed to inappropriate material, at worst he himself is a victim of sexual abuse -

though he was younger @ 6, coming up 7, so I'm just not sure as regards a 10 yr old, but to me it still seems very young too

It depends on how your friend is handling it whether you inform the school. The school will have a chat with him in a supportive manner to establish were this behaviour originates from. Boys of 10 can become sexual, he may have older cousins who have shown him porn. Someone needs to speak to him about appropriate behaviour. If it is innocent he probably has alot of confusioning thoughts about sex. However, it sometimes is a sign of abuse in some way.

Thanks for all of your advice Ladies. I think it's probably quite normal for 10 yr old boy's to be curious about sex and i'm sure they get there information from friends with older brothers ect.. BUT like you have all said, putting this into practice and sharing his information (he actually said "when you are kissing you put your willy in the hole) With a 4yr old is completely out of order! Would he find this an acceptable thing to do to a 3yr old or even 2??
I Know my friend feels terrible but i don't think she asked him questions in the right way, she asked very leading questions and gave him a choice of answers to which he picked the less harmless! She apparently also said to him "Thank you for being honest" Ha!!! so he has got away with lying now.......

I can see why you're upset about your DD but I think the calls to keep him away like he's some kind of threat is going overboard.

At 10, I presume he has had some kind of sex education at school. He has merely told her what he has learnt. As it's a fact, told to him by his teachers, it's wrong to tell him that this is naughty or dirty. Rather that the information he is learning about is for older children, not little girls.

I would also talk frankly to your DD about it. If she feels this subject us somehow naughty or dirty, she may be reluctant to talk to you later. A simple, it's just for grown ups and move swiftly on.

If she'd been born on a farm she'd know how it all works by now!

Sorry but having a 14 year old DS. I would be worried about a 10 year old with such ideas. Yes boys do experiment, but 10 sounds young to me. I know what sex education in school is like and they do it at 10 because the boys know the facts but still think they are gross at that age.

I would be more concerned for your friends son. Your daughter will get over this. You may want to give her some advice about No being No, and not letting anyone do anything you don't like.

However your friend seems to not want to know if her son is covering up. So what else doesn't she want to know? Has he been exposed to inappropriate TV? Films? Older cousins? etc.

I meant to say actually that when i spoke to DD i told her that he shouldn't have said these things that it was something that is for adults to talk about and if she does want to talk about it to just talk to me about it. She is in no way upset or bothered by what happened as fruitstick has said the kid's should be able to be frank about these subjects, i was just not expecting to be having these conversations yet! It's a shame he has lied about it though as i would feel better if he had come clean. It's hard, the sensible side of me agrees with fruitstick, and i should be positive about what has happened and deal with it and put it behind us but the 'get away from my DD you dirty little B***D' part wants to put my hands around his scrawny neck and squeeze!! Don't worry, i'll probably go with the sensible option!

Broffy - I understand why this is so upsetting you. I am not certain that I would have a clue how to deal with this either. YANBU to be angry.

The information the 10 year old gave to your DD could simply be him showing off about his knowledge gained through (hopefully) school based sex ed. I have a 10 yo DS and he delights in being knowledgeable and terribly condescending towards his 6 yo brother. AFAIK, he hasn't been quite so graphic but I have heard him talking about stuff. I have also witnessed him being rather coarse about girls - eg to a friend of his "tell me about the girls in your school because I might be interested in them". It sounds awful - as a woman I feel my hackles rising and I have explained to him that not only does he need to learn to be more subtle but that women should not be treated as objects. He also, rather embarrassingly, regularly tries to put his arm around our babysitter when they sit together on the sofa . He clearly has a huge crush and thankfully, as an experienced nanny, she is excellent at dealing with it. I would hate to think that someone would assume DS is being abused because he is beginning to experiment with his sexuality.

Boys this age as practically bursting with hormones. He may well be intimidated by girls his own age which is why he approached your DD. This is in no way excusing his behaviour but not sure it signals potential abuse either.

Mummytime, not sure what he watches on tv but i no he is allowed to play these awful killing games which are rated 18, my friend knows i think this wrong, i actually said to her a while ago to make a point, "would you let him watch porn"!!!

Yes, 10 yo's hormones are all over the place and this boy was sharing biologically correct (and so neutral) information BUT his playing with his bits when she might have seen is SO not right - have you asked your DD about that?

In short, for a 10 year old boy to be exposing himself to a 4yo girl at the same time as talking about sex and actually kissing her (and that may well have involved tongues from her behaviour subsequently) is well off the normal scale. Don't be angry with your friend as she is probably shocked too. I suggest that you and she take advice from "STOPITNOW" which is a charity that give advice on this kind of issue, and can tell you how seriously to take it and how to deal with the situation.

www.stopitnow.org.uk/

Keep your DD out of harm's way for now and don't let her round to your friend's house until this is all in the distant past and you are sure you can trust this boy to be alone with her. No point being angry about anything though.

We certainly knew about things like this and talked about willies and stuff from about 6/7 onwards. We also used to play doctors and nurses and games with other children of the same age. However, here there is a big age difference and a big warning sign to the 10 year old.

But I disagree with everyone saying a 10 year old wouldn't have heard of these types of things (even my 5 and 7 year old could probably hazard a guess at some of this stuff), what is worrying is his putting it into practice/experimenting, which must not happen ever again.

Thank you amyamyamy that's very helpfull i will email them for advice.

A ten year old that is aware of sex is normal IMO

Doing what this child has done to a FOUR year old is not normal at all. And yes I would see him as a threat.

I am a mother of a 10 year old ds btw.