To feel like I've Fucked Up My Kids As I Have No Friends?

[KidsComingOutOfMyEars]

I have no one at all apart from DH (he has no friends either). Our families do not live near and have very little contact with the DCs.

Basically I have moved round all my life (almost 40), left home at 18 and moved away from home town, so lost contact with school friends (did have some then!), as a lot of them moved away for work or uni. Then moved to a London at 21 and had work friends (who I would go out on the razzle with). Met DH then as well and as we were so into each other, lack of friends did not matter (he had lots of friends at that point).

At 25, we moved out of London (1st DC, bought a house in an area where we knew nobody, cheapest houses within commuting distance to London) and I realise now that I suffered from PND as I did go to baby groups but could never connect with anyone iykwim. When DC1 was 8 months, I went back to work but it was a new job in our new town as I decided I could not do the commute back to my old London job and I felt so isolated at home so basically lost contact with London work friends. In this time DH started losing contact with his friends as we were outside of London and he had a long commute so no time for socialising what with new baby. I got on well with people at work (as I have always done) but could never take it any further to make actual proper friends.

God knows why (when I think back) but we moved again when DC1 was 2 to a nearby town as we could get a better house. Don't know what I was thinking but I think I thought that a fresh start would be good which seems to be the story of my bloody life! Then I got pregnant with DC2 and decided that life would be pretty shit with 2 DCs and no family or friend support so we decided to move back to my home town where I had some family. DC1 was 4 by then and sadly DC2 was stillborn shortly after we moved. So of course I was pretty low and depressed, so found another job within 3 months and threw myself into it. DC1 was picked up by my sister so I did not go to the school much to meet the other mums although she did have friends over at weekends but the parents seemed to drop and run rather than stay and chat!.

Then I got pregnant again but returned to work soon after I had DC3. We (or rather I in my lets start afresh mindset) then moved abroad as DH was offered a job (I made him apply for it), and I did make one good friend over there but we returned within a year as we basically got shafted in regards to DH's job and could do nothing about it as he was on a work visa. We had hoped to stay there permanently as we could have applied for residency after 2 years but the whole move was pretty much a disaster (won't bore anyone with that story!) and we came back completely demoralised having lost a whole lot of money.

So if you have read this far, currently we have been living here in this town, a totally new area as DH was offered a job here, for 4 years (bloody hell time flies) and although I have had periods of working and not working, I have still not made any frigging friends! I am extremely shy and can give the impression of being aloof but I can talk to people on the school run and can start a conversation with anyone in a shop or whatever so I cannot understand whats wrong with me.

I have just had DC4 and have been to some baby groups but they just bore me to death and I can hardly ask some random mum to come over. I just feel so totally isolated and feel like shit that my DCs have never really known DH and I having friends over for a coffee or for dinner. They rarely see any of our families so the only adult contact they have is with DH & I. I read somewhere on here that DCs of friendless parents can turn out like them and I would hate for them to have the life we have . They are quite sociable and have friends from school and clubs. I have promised myself that we will never move from this shitty town and will encourage the DCs to stick around too so they don't lose contact with their friends as adults like we did.

AIBU to think that DH & I must be completely weird and pathetic and worry we are projecting this on our DCs?

pffffft. of course people talk about babies at baby groups... that's what has brought them there. once you strike up a conversation with a person, however, it's up to you to take the chat beyond nappies.
you seem quite happy with your situation imo, other than the way it is impacting on your children. i find it incredibly hard to believe that you haven't ever clicked with one of the mums at school, you absolutely must be making it clear that you don't want friends.

I recognise that thing about moving all the time and then not putting down good roots. Do you feel that you are running away sometimes, to avoid your feelings of isolation? The trouble is, you take your feelings with you and you do sound slightly depressed. Have you considered talking to your GP and getting a bit of counselling? You have been through some difficult times and you seem to be beating yourself up a bit.

Perhaps you should relax a bit about the kids. There are four of them and they have each other so it is not as if this is an only child who might be isolated in this situation. They must get lots of socialisation from being in a big family. If they are happy and sociable, you must be doing something right!

Agree with others about joining something, doing volunteering, inviting other parents over etc. If you really don't fit in culturally to the town you are living in, then that is difficult being a square peg in a round hole, but nowhere is perfect and full of like-minded souls. They have to be sought out and friendships worked on. I struggle with all that myself so I wish you the best of luck, with feeling!

That's harsher than I'd expect from you, Aitch. I can honestly say I've never "clicked" with any mums I've met. I have mum friends but they're all friendships which take a bit of effort, not people I'd phone up for a chat or have a bottle of wine with. I don't think I give off bad vibes - quite often I'm the instigator of meet-ups - but some people find like-minded souls thinner on the ground than others.

I was one of the people who posted on the other thread about having to learn how to make friends as an adult because my parents had no friends.

First of all I would say try and relax about this. None of us bring up our children perfectly. Although I didn't learn how to make friends from my parents - and I do think it is different to learning how to be part of a family - in other ways they were brilliant parents. They were very supportive, tried to expose us to a whole range of experiences and really encouraged us in everything.

If you do want to tackle this I don't think you need to have lots of friends. The skills needed to make and keep one or two friends are the same skills needed to make and keep lots of friends.

And don't worry about your DH being your best friend. I think lots of people would say the same and there really is nothing wrong with that.

I feel that some people need to be a bit more sensitive in their reading of and responses to this OP. The OP has sadly suffered a stillbirth with DC2. It takes a lot of courage and support to move on in life following such tragedy, and when you're in a new place where you don't know many people it's hard to find the support and friendship that you need.

I think it's great that you recognise that more friends in your life would be good for you and your three DC's. The next step is to decide how to go about finding them ! As I said, I wish you lots of luck and courage as you take those next steps forward

Oh, you do have my sympathy. It can be hard.

We have moved around as well, DH and I are not even from the same country, and together we have lived on 8 different addresses(in 4 countries!) in the past 15 years.

2 years ago we decide to put down roots, and we bought a house in an area we liked, at commutable distance from London (jobs, though am currently out of job myself.)

Over the years I have learned how to get cracking on the friend thing. Like you I have had PND, and panic attacks, which does not help.

Still, some tips on how we "worked" on this:

• I got all the neighbours over for a drink, one Sunday afternoon (did not feel like this really, but made myself do it). Now I know them, we sometimes have a chat, and we had a street BBQ this summer.
• I joined the school PTA, help with cake sales etc. It is much appreciated, and a nice informal way to get to know other parents.
• I joined the local running club, not crazy about running but I had to keep active and I met some nice people.
• I joined a book club. Bit of a disaster in a way, don't like the books they choose, have not made friends there as such, but still, you win some you lose some.

Find a hobby or interest and pursue it! Cooking? sport? painting?

also, my DH is my best friend too, and we recognise that we can be a bit anti social at times, but it's also, partly a choice.

We threw our first party EVER (since our wedding 10 years ago ) this year, and it was, surprisingly (for us) a success (just got lots of food and booze in, music, and invited the neighbours so they would not complain about the noise ). That was a big thing for us. And we ended up being invited back to lots of people.

You have to take the first step, and give it time.

I totally understand where you are coming from... despite having 3dd's one of whom is nearly 6 and living in the same place for over 3 years I am only just now getting to the point of having friends who I feel I could ask for a favour (or feel confident enough in the friendship to offer to help them out).

I have also joined the pta but tbh there are so few of us it's not really extended my friendship group. DH is a grumpy git when in company (he loves being at home/ out with us as a family and doesn't see the need to change that).

DC's are now getting the age of having friends over after school etc but we have never in the 3 years we've been here had friends over for dinner. Hey ho a work in progress....

You won't fuck up your kids. They'll have their own friends at school and through other activities.

I also don't get much out of baby groups/baby massage/yoga etc. But I did go to a few, swapped numbers with some people and now meet them for a coffee outside the group as the group itself bored me stupid. Have you got time to indulge in a hobby at all? I have made some lovely friends through my local running club.

The other thing is - what about people on your street? I live in London and have made friends with people who live on the street round the corner from me. In fact, 4 ladies and their babies have just left my flat after coffee and biscuits. We take it in turns and I really look forward to it.

i guess, washnomore, that i don't have a great deal of sympathy for people who complain about baby groups being beneath them but who are actually desperately lonely. there IS a connection there, tbh. of course i have ENORMOUS sympathy for anyone whose child has died, but this OP does know herself well enough to know that she appears aloof (for which read unfriendly) to other people. so it is really up to her to alter that, but how to do that when 'bored to death' by other parents is going to be tricky and will require an adjustment of attitude that i don't really see happening throughout the thread. like lulu said, it's not going to come to her in her house.

it's not hard to make friends, imo and ime, when you have small children. BUT you DO have to smile a lot, chat a lot of rubbish, sympathise a lot and bite your tongue a heck of a lot while you sift out the people who are never likely to be more than school gate chums. and you have to be brave enough to ask the person who you do like for their email so that you can check homework (or whatever kid-related excuse), with the intention of grabbing them to go for a drinky after parents' night.

come ON, all you people. you KNOW you are nice, you KNOW you are likeable. if you get on with people here then RL is a breeze... imo.

I joined a book club. Bit of a disaster in a way, don't like the books they choose, have not made friends there as such, but still, you win some you lose some.

I can totally relate to that. I once went to an online forum pre-natal meet up (not mumsnet) and cried when I got home because I was so depressed at my potential selection of "mummy" friends. I'd saved my one weekly glass of wine for the meet up, and I was the only one out of 24 who had had even a sip of booze since getting the blue line. Well each to his own, I thought, as I cancelled my sauvignon blanc and ordered some Perrier, but then even my coffee was frowned on. Sob. At least I gave them something to talk about at their subsequent meet ups- "that dreadful woman poisoning her child with alcohol and coffee"

I don't like baby groups and mine never did them - DH was a SAHD who didn't feel comfortable at them and with DS, our third, we lived in the boonies and it cost a bomb to get to one.

But where I've met mates is at school, in the yard waiting for them to get out.

Do you like to go to pubs and have a good time? I do, so it became easy to hook up with other mums in social settings like this.

Does the school have end of term parents' nights out/ceilidhs/parties? Ours does, and they're fab for meeting people whom you can plan days out with.

It doesn't have to be all babygroups. I'd go with the other suggestions about school-activities like PTA or meeting parents at your school-aged childrens' activites.

i am staggered that there are people with school age children who want friends but cannot get them, tbh expat. what happens at all the children's parties, for example? don't parents speak then?
for the record i didn't go to baby groups either, because i had fortunately made pals through an nct class and didn't want for more. they're still my very good friends 5 years later. but it's the 'bore me to death' attitude that gets me. why would anyone want to be friends with someone who thinks that of them? more to the point, why would they want to be anything but boring to get rid of them? when i mention 'clicking', that's not an immediate thing, we're not falling head over heels in love here. friendship requires effort, kindness and a willingness to move out of one's comfort zone. then there's a click.

aitch - in my experience, parents are rarely encouraged to stay at school age parties.
I can empathise to an extent. my children are older now and i have slowly acquired a nice collection of mates - my problem is, none of them particualry get on with each other, so parties are awkward. :D
But although i made pleasant small talk in the toddler groups, and then in the playground, and joined committees etc, i never exactly had people queueing up to invite me round. People were friendly enough but I suffer from a fear of rejection, so could never bring myself to suggest a meet-up in the park etc. or the few times I did, people were working or busy...... I found school hols quite lonely for years.
To this day I don't know what i was doing wrong.
I am obviously not a vile person, or totally boring, or riddled with B.O. etc, as i say, i do have friends now.
Perhaps i just gained confidence (or cared less) as i grew older :)
My friends range from 20 years younger than me to 20 years older than me, so perhaps that's another factor - wideing the net!

Most of my friends are through work or hobbies. You don't mention any hobbies and sound as though you aren't currently in a consistent job.
I would imagine that having 4 kids restricts your social options alot anyway. What are your interests? Can you join a group based around these?
I never got into baby groups and saw these as more for my kids than me.

i think if you want to make friends you have to be a bit bold, whether it comes naturally or not. I also think that when you meet someone you can tell pretty quickly whether they are the sort of person whom you could be friends with. If they are, get their number, arrange to do something, have a coffee or whatever. You have nothing to lose! I am as shy as they come but i also need to have friends and I have had to go out on a limb slightly at times (much against my natural instincts) but it has generally paid off.

'I have just had DC4 and have been to some baby groups but they just bore me to death and I can hardly ask some random mum to come over. '
you know what, you can invite some random mum over-why not?

I think we're all different.

I've moved all my life, I wonder if it makes you more self reliant however my sister and I are very different.

My sister is incredibly sociable,works at getting and maintaining friendships of which she has hoards,she is a good friend.

I'm a good friend too but I'm quite fussy.I don't have the headspace for 100s of friendships that need hard work to maintain and attain in the first place.I just can't do it.I get the boredom thing too.I need to find people interesting.I find life hectic, I struggle with doing all I should be doing on the mothering front let alone the friendship front.

I use to compare myself to my sister and it's silly,we're different end of. You're either naturally sociable or you're not,you can't fake it.

I make friends easily and I'm always polite,kind to everybody but I only go that extra mile for a few I find really interesting and click with I guess. The same sense of humour and masses to talk about are key for me.

Honestly I see these people with 100s of Facebook friends in a constant whirl about town and it's just not for me,it would stress me out that I wasn't being a good enough friend.I like to have fewer that I can concentrate on and even those I know I need to do more with ie I'm crap at entertaining. I owe so many dinners it's but if anybody needed me I'd be there and I'm a good support when needed. I also love a good coffee and chinwag.

Some people don't need a huge support system.I just need a few people I know well that I can have a laugh with,coffee,dinner and who aren't offended if we don't get time to meet up every other day,week etc.

I'm lucky in that my dp,sister and mother fulfill a lot of what I need and are prepared to put up with my crap time management,organisation as are my friends.I know I'm lazy in that I let other people do all the organising,I know I need to do more on that score.

I'm in awe of these people that manage to work,mother and socialise in a big way.How do you juggle it all?

So op I share your concerns.My kids are like me they have a few special friends and we don't do the endless playdate thing(bores me to tears).They are very self reliant and all their teachers have praised them for this ie they don't do the cliquey falling out over sitting next to people thing.

I do wonder if I need to make more effort so they could be sort of in between my sister and I. One thing I would say is I'm trying to stay put for several years so the dc can learn to maintain longtime friends.I have old friends but I think constantly moving may have made me a tad lazy iykwim.

Sorry for the essay but you need to both celebrate your strengths and find some interests so you can make friends that interest you if you want to. Invite people that you really like over for coffee.Personally I wouldn't force friendships that you don't really enjoy but thats me.

i have a school age kid actually, and some parents do drop and run so quickly that they barely stop to say hello. however, people who would like to be friendly, however, stand and chat at the door of the soft play, say nice things about other people's cute kids, compliment mothers on their new hair cuts, find out what everyone else is doing during the two hours of time-killing that is about to take place, and often end off going for a coffee/taking smaller children somewhere else for the duration. and above all, they don't take it personally if everyone else already has plans for their saturday afternoon.

agree wholeheartedly with catissleepy... boldness is what is required.

I second hobbies, too! I've met a nice collection of mates that way, too, through rambling club, knitting circle and a sewing class I took. They're mostly older than I am and have grown children and grandchildren, but we have fun and interestingly, DH has made mates with many of them or their spouses as well and plays golf every now and again, pool/snooker, darts, and bowling.

I also agree with whoever said that boldness is necessary. I only recently met a lady and her baby in my neighbourhood and she just asked if me and DH would like to come round for dinner. I was flattered and really pleased to be asked to be honest. I'm sure most people would be so don't think twice about asking people over/suggesting coffee etc.

I agree with Aitch

It's all a bit like dating, isn't it?

You have to kiss a lot of frogs before you meet a prince.

And some people are fussy, some will put up with anything, some like lots of variety, some like to stick with one person.

I sympathise totally with the OP. I left London and my job when I had dcs. Since then I have never really moved beyond acquaintance-level with people. I have just never found anyone I have anything in common with. Plus I recently discovered to my absolute horror that dd's friend's mum is 20 ( twenty! ) years younger than I am. No wonder she looks at me as if I am an ancient leathery old bag.

I hear you OP. We have moved around for the sake of better jobs, bigger house ect ect. We are in North America now, I have two DS's aged 7 and 9, and a 4 month old baby dd, i'm about to throw myself back into the world of baby groups, baby swiming, rhyme time ect all over again. I do have some friends here and when you have no family close by your friends become like family. I don't work at friendships, it has to come naturaly, don't worry if you don't click with everyone, most people are knobs anyway

I am 43 have moved around a lot because of dh's job albeit we have been in this place for 11 years now. I have never ever had anyone round to dinner and never intend to either. Most people are probably shocked by that statement. I do not have a need to have loads of friends and be social.

My dc have their friends round and go to plenty of clubs and sports. My dh works long hours in a very stressful job, our weekends are precious and spent together as a family, although dd is usually up the city with her friends or in the park. I do not wish to hear about other peoples gripes with life, I do have one mate who I am quite close to but she drones on about her job, her life, her kids all the time and never lets you get a word in edgeways, to listen to that at night over dinner - no thanks.

I am an only child though and I am quite happy in my own company which I think has a lot to do with it.

When your kids have a birthday, couldn't they invite some friends from school to your house/bowling/party out or whatever you fancy. If they're still little their parents will probably come too, or even if they're older it's a good chance for them to get to know ppl out of school, and you might end up getting to know their parents a bit as well.