to not want to babysit for a friend because of the state of her house?

[TidyDancer]

I have a friend whom I have known for a long time, who is asking for babysitting for her 10mo DS. She asks for me to go to her house with my two (DS 5yrs, DD 2mo) and look after her DS, but I keep having to make excuses. It's not difficult to do because of parties and family commitments etc, but I feel guilty lying to her.

The truth is, I can't bring myself to enter the house because of the state of it. To say it is appauling would be an understatement. It is dirty, smelly, covered in dust, cat poo is not cleared up, nothing is ever cleaned or hoovered etc. I feel ill on the rare occasions I have entered the house, there is no way I can stomach actually spending any real length of time in it. Not to mention the fact that I will never be comfortable taking a small baby in there, and DS doesn't hold back when he has opinions about something, no matter how much I try to stop him. He would complain about the smell from the off.

I would be fine with having my friend's DS in my own house, but she keeps on and on about me going to her. We both drive, so it's not that transport is an issue.

There are also quite serious personal hygiene issues with my friend and her DS. The baby never smells clean (can't work out if it's that he actually isn't clean, or if the house and probably unwashed clothes make him smell like that), and neither does my friend.

I don't know what to do. I have tried gently mentioning things in the past, but it never comes to anything, because I don't think she really believes there is a problem.

I probably sound really horrible, I'm not, I swear, I love my friend, and this is actually more about wanting to do something to change the situation than it is about avoiding the babysitting, I just don't know what to do.

So firstly, AIBU to say no to the babysitting in her house even though I have free time, and secondly, can anyone help me with ways to coax my friend into better personal habits? Tough love will not work on her, she will be devastated and nothing will improve.

Why not explain to her why like you just have done. Sometimes people need to be told. Orrr just say i'd prefer to have him at mine because i can feel comfortable then.

Well I do think you should be honest with her...

Otherwise, perhaps say that your DCs routine will be too disrupted and after all, there's only one of her DS not two.

Or invent a cat allergy?

Or "I don't want to put you to any trouble, clearing up for us and that"!

Has she ever mentioned that she is struggling? when my first was tiny i was poorly, my flat was awful. i really couldn't face day to day housework.

although i always blitzed the place when i knew people were coming round. and i did bath my baby often. but in a mental state i wasnt really bad and i was also quite young.

for want of a better way to say it, over the years ive 'learnt' how to be cleaner. school routine has made it easier for me now. although im not perfect yet.

maybe trying to see if she is struggling with it all could be the first step. hth.

She must know she struggles to keep on top of everyday stuff, so it's a bit weird you think she'd be devastated you've said something but not bother to do anything about it.

Once a house gets into a real state it can be difficult for some to know where to start, and if they do sort it all out, difficult to keep up the routine of constantly trying to be on top of it.

Has she always been like this?

Or has something sparked the lack of care for herself and her baby?

Some might suggest you're not being supportive going round and doing it yourself, but it's not your responsibility, nor will it suddenly make her do it longterm.

In that case you're going to have to tell her straight and ignore it if she pretends not to have noticed.

She might be glad of the chance to talk about why she's let it get into the state it has?

Tell her that you will babysit at your house but not at yours, because you think your child might have Asthma and has to be in a clean house.

Not at hers, sorry.

I'd say that it has to be at your house, especially as you have a 2mo. If she asks why, you should tell her, especially as you've been friends a long time. It might give her the incentive to get on top of it. Perhaps you could help her (not necessarily physically) by telling her how to get started.

Tell her the truth. It sounds like she needs to hear it.

She's OK otherwise, is she? No PND type issues which might impact the state of the house?

Thank you for replies.

To answer the various points, yes, she has more or less always been like this from what I understand. Things don't seem to have got any better or worse since the baby was born, just more of a problem IYGWIM, because of him being in the mess.

I truly don't think she believes she lives the way she does. She occasionally goes on what she thinks is a cleaning spree, but it barely touches the surface. Most weeks she does nothing. I think she is lazy with it, but that she has convinced herself that it isn't a problem maybe.

She has never mentioned that she is struggling with housework. I have been told by a mutual friend who has known her for longer than I have that she has been terrible with housework and personal hygiene since she was a teenager. That probably sounds like I gossip about it, I don't, said mutual friend asked me how she was doing (as she doesn't see her as much now) and it came up.

She has a history of depression but she currently is not on any medication and has not been for about two years. Things have not got better or worse since she came off it.

'Devastated' might not have been the best way to put it. Basically, if I was to be blunt with her, she would turn on me and do nothing to the house, just assume that I was mounting a personal attack on her and that it actually had nothing to do with what we were discussing. I have seen her react like this to people in the past, though to the best of my recollection, she has not been confronted about the house yet.

Tbh, in that case I would go for the asthma/ cat allergy excuse. And pop her baby in the bath with yours when it comes over? Hopefully her health visitor will pick up on it- if you know who it is could you let her know?

She doesn't see a HV. I'm not sure of the circumstances of that, but I'm guessing she got wind of the fact that she wasn't legally required to have one. I have bathed the baby and washed the clothes before, but it feels like the old 'putting a plaster over a Grand Canyon sized wound' analogy.

I can keep avoiding going to the house, I mean, she can't literally force me to go there, but I feel for her DS as well as her, the baby is dirty. Can you even imagine what a hellish time he would have at school? That's even if it gets to that point without SS getting involved.

There is just no way I can think of for me to help her that will keep the house and her DS clean longterm, and her not flying off the handle in the process.

I really think you need to tell her the truth.

Could you offer to help her clean up one day so it's easier for her to keep on top of it?

If no one tells her then she is unlikely to see it as a problem.

If you're worried for the baby I think you have to say something and take the risk she'll kick off at you.

It's possible she'll calm down and take in some of what you're saying afterwards.

I've known people whose houses you have to wipe your feet going out, I've accepted it's the way they are, but they haven't got children.

I know people used to live in hovels/how have we survived so far blah blah, but she's not even bothering to clear up the cat shit with a soon to be into everything toddler, you've got to have crossed a line if you're doing that.

You'd be telling her the truth, and about how it makes you feel ie worried for her, if you've got her best interests at heart I think you'd be doing the right thing.

if she wants you to look after her child she needs to bring him to yours

just tell her that you can't put your children in her house because of how filthy it is

I would contact ss.

Tbh if you are doing her a favour by babysitting then just say it's more convenient at your house.

Aside from the hygiene issues you describe you'd be totally reasonable to say babysitting in your house only due to your children., baby's routine, own cot etc... (you didn't make it clear if she is paying you?).

But really you should tell her the truth, along the lines of, you can say it to her as you are close friends, but others would come once and then never again etc

Does she have a mum or sister you could talk to? Or even her gp? Just in case it is part of pnd. Otherwise I really would talk to the health visitor and see if she can arrange a " nearly one" check.

If you are a real friend you need to speak to her about this honestly.

Tell her your concerns. Talk to her about babyproofing her home. Its fine to be a bit slovenly if its just you there but now she has a baby and cat shit is dangerous to young children, it carries parasites which can affect eyesight if ingested.

Ask her if she needs help to make her home more child friendly.

Tell her you are not comfortable bringing your kids round to hers, if she kicks off so be it.

Does she have any family members you could contact and maybe they might have some luck getting through to her?

Otherwise perhaps ask your HV for advice and they might be able to arrange a visit to see if there's any way they can help out.

Have you tried just saying to her that you will look after her ds at your house but not hers. Don't give an excuse or reason why. If she pushes for a reason, just say it is 'better' to come to yours. Unless she is really stupid she will work out why you refuse to go to hers. You refusing to name the reason may allow her to recognise that you are not being accusatory about it and may allow her the space to bring it up herself. Hopefully she will have nothing to fly off the handle at you for, and if she does not bring it up, you will know that she is not interested in accepting your input, or help to change.

No family members that she is in close contact with. She is an only child, parents not nearby and have only seen her DS once or twice since he was born.

I have tried to gently say things in the past, but she really would not respond well to me putting it to her straight. It's not a case of me being afraid to say it (although no one with a heart would enjoy it), it's that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. She would take it as a personal attack and do nothing about the house or herself. Partly because she doesn't see a problem there, but also because she'll block herself from believing I had a point so she doesn't have to deal with criticism. I'm sounding very amateur psychologist here, I know, but I've seen her reactions to other people in the past, and she doesn't deviate. She does fall out with people quite easily because she can be a difficult person to get on with owing to the fact that she flips on people for small reasons (sorry, don't mean to drip feed, just trying to explain).

I don't mind looking after her DS in my own home, but it's not helping the underlying issue. I'm having trouble letting her near my DD as well....I know that's going to sound PFB (even though she's not my first) but who wants their child held by someone who smells that bad and is that dirty?

My sister is exactly like this, and I know exactly what you mean too - any attempt to point out the dirt and squalor is met with either a prolonged cold spell (she didn't speak to me for months at one stage) or else 'you're always having a go at me' . I, and the rest of my family, have tried helping, cleaning, tidying, de-cluttering (with her consent obviously) and within a fortnight its back to the same state as before. Her children are constantly ill (vomiting bugs, diarrhoea) but she refuses to see the connection. Social services did pay a visit once, but instead of getting a qualified social worker, she was visited by a student, whose first words were 'don't worry, there is nothing you could do that would make us consider taking your children into care' which she then proclaimed to be proof that everyone else thinks its ok, and we (her family) are just bullies for wanting her to change.

I have no suggestion whatsoever as to how you can get through to your friend, but I just wanted to you to know that this is a really upsetting situation, and you are not the only person to have a friend/relative who you desperately want to help, but who you can't seem to reach.

Thank you Snoozle. You've got it entirely, and I'm sorry you have been through that with your sister. There's no good answer to a problem like this.

Tidy, you sound like a lovely caring friend but something really needs to be done for the sake of her child.

IMHO it sounds like intervention is needed, probably in the form of ss. Maybe hv too?

She may be unwell, she may not but either way her baby doesn't have a choice in this. She does.