to think the school were asking for trouble with this report card.

[mamateur]

Our 13 yo was put on report last week for skipping a class. I first saw the report card on Monday evening, the teacher writes in a grade from 1-5 and initials it, for each lesson. I immediately thought, hey this is a good opportunity to encourage him to work at school. We looked at the scores he'd got and worked out a number of points which, if he achieved them, would earn him a small reward at the end of the week. I made it very small (prisoner's wages!) so as not to overly reward a punishment from the school. THe second day he got good scores and they got better still on Wednesday. THen on THursday I had a call from his English teacher reporting an incident in class (he swore). Yet, when I looked at his scores that evening (he was waving them in my face, saying how great they were, imagine my surprise when this teacher had given him a rather funny looking 5. More like a 1 with a squiggle under it really. He admitted it (when i told him I'd spoken to the teacher) but said it was the only one. I made him change it back and let him carry on for the rest of the week. He swore blind it was the only one but on Friday we all looked at it together and I can see about 3 certain changes and several other suspicious ones.

I think the school would better design the report card in a format with checks against a 1-5 scale, which wouldn't be open to doctoring.

This is designed for non-model students, AIBU to think an inner city London school would be a bit more prepared? Or was I silly to put a reward on it. In my defence, we've only had him with us for 6 months.

The simplest thing would be to write the number (one instead of 1), much harder to fiddle i should think.

And i think your idea was a good one btw :)

x-post!

I think your reward sounds fine - in my experience a report card system is meant to a) give a child the chance to show they are good more often than not (something that can get overlooked) and b) to encourage them to behave well in lessons - the thought of the mark at the end is to focus the mind. I think your small reward supports these aims. Sounds like you and he have had a hard time and he needs a carrot as well as a stick.
Remember soft rewards work well too for this age - praise etc. You have to appear more casual about it than with younger ones. (sorry if that sounds patronising - i don't know if you have older dcs or if a teenager has just appeared. ) BTW he didn't take you for a mug - he was testing your boundaries. You say he has been spoilt rotten so is presumably used to pushing them to the limit! On the bright side he did want you to think he had been good rather than going the "don't care" or "look how bad I am" route.

Idea for easy way to reduce fraud - write the number as a word rather than a number "one" is much harder to change to "five" than the numbers, esp if capital letters used.

blueemerald I can't believe some teachers write the score in pencil! They really must have lost faith in the system.
I'm going to email my suggestion to the school. THe problem is, with a 1-5 scale to check, the card will be much bigger.

I visited another school (actually the school I hope DN will start at in September) and they stay with the same form tutor as they go up through the school. WHat a brilliant idea, all these things could be channeled through a form teacher who would understand the situation much better.

X posted too. Obviously a Sunday morning idea!

Clytaemnestra and justkeepswimming, brilliant idea!

And you CC. (it hadn't occurred to me) and also great it can be used with the existing format.

Maybe you could remove all treats (going out with friends/computer/pocket money/tv etc ...) and let him earn them back one at a time for each good week with no bad days on the report card. That way it still rewards a positive change in behaviour, but only by him earning back his priviledges. Oh and sanction him for doctoring the form, speak to Head of Year/Form Tutor on Friday to check with them how he has been and marry that against the form. Have the school got a Learning Mentor/Councillor that can see him 1-2-1, it sounds like he has unresolved anger issues about his situation, maybe talking to someone would help him?

you can't see it can you op? You undermine the schools punishment by turning it into a treat and then wonder why your ds is reacting in the way he is...

Thanks for your post AllSheep. I'm going to have a think about sanctioning the doctoring of the form. He is adamant it was just the one number I caught him at. Granny (who brought him up till now) was here on Friday and she tried to get him to confess but he is still holding out. I'm going to have another chat with him this evening.

We have a deputy head in charge of y8 behaviour, but I'll ask about the mentor. THe school seems very ill-equipped to deal with children from problem backgrounds, even though sadly, I imagine there are many who had a much harder time than DN.

ivykate
it is a her nephew

allsheep that sounds a good way of doing it.
People respond better to praise than punishment

Ivykaty - as I said upthread, I liaise fully (daily emails) with the school regarding punishments, rewards and incentives. They are very happy with the big improvement we've achieved in his behaviour (he refused school for the 3 months before we had him). Surely they would say something if they would rather I didn't? .

Separately from this, I don't see how 'turning it into a treat' (I prefer to see it as finding a positive in a negative) would necessarily elicit bad behaviour. If he will strive to achieve a good grade, then that is a good thing, surely?

But I was thwarted by that darn card .

He is lucky to have you, given the dreadful things he has already gone through. Could you write down your main concerns and your suggestions of solutions (from mners here) and suggest a meeting with one or both of the fab teachers to discuss them?

Do you know what he does when he truants? Some teenagers truant to study.

Who does he truant with?

Your lad is obviously intelligent, slightly devious and very good at spinning a tale with these assets he should go far, you'll laugh about it when hes Prime Minister

Thanks Purplebrick! We have quite a few meetings with the school, usually when DN's behaviour reaches a certain level - he then has a few weeks of being great, behaving well, polite to teachers etc. Then things slip again (usually when he's been back to stay with his granny who brought him up - she is very indulgent and treats him as special because he is an orphan - an approach I strongly disagree with, I've explained to her why, but she cannot change). Worryingly, as time goes on, the good periods get shorter. I just can't wait to get him out of this school - it has an ofsted outstanding that appears to mean they are great if your child works, but non-model pupils get stuck in a holding pattern of being sent out the classroom for any disturbance to a cool down unit where they are not given any work or any way of accessing the work they've missed in class. The homework is not available on line either, which it is in many schools I hear.

He has only truanted once to our knowledge. He has formed an alliance with another pupil who was 'humiliated' by the science teacher (he rang his parents live in class) - so they decided to not go to his lesson. I think it was a spur of the moment thing though, and he got caught so perhaps that will dissuade him.

Beesimo, PM!

No school is perfect, and tbh any pupil who needs to be removed from a lesson will struggle to totally keep up With the work missed - with the best will in the world it can be hard to replicate the classroom conditions. You can give worksheets and text books but you cant replicate the teacher input, practicals, group work .... And often these pupils who misbehave are the least likely to get down to some independent work from a book anyway.
I think the ofsted outstanding is a red herring- any decent school will remove pupils who are jeapardising others' learning. All pupils should have an equal chance, but unfortunately some pupils take up a disproportionate amount of time at the expense of others.
I can see you're frustrated, but I would imagine in reality your DN has already taken up his tutor/ head of year etc time far more than other pupils who are equally deserving

VioletHill. I agree with everything you say - when DS is at that age I wouldn't want his learning to be slowed by bad behaviour from other students.

But, can't teachers deal with bad behaviour in any other way than by sending the pupil out? It seems to me to add up to streaming on the basis of behaviour rather than ability. I'm sure the teacher is delighted to get rid of all the undesirables as early in the day as possible, but oh it's frustrating when your child is one of them.

I would be SO happy if they gave me a work sheet - I would make him sit and work on it in his homework time - and I've said this to them. Or just a vague lesson plan. But with nothing from the teacher it's hard. The other day I made him do an hour of history when he was sent out of class. Apparently it was about the Jews. Or the Jacobites. Or either James I or II. .

I do think the school give us a lot of time because we have shown how much we care and that they have our full support.

It's been a very tough few weeks with him, but actually he hasn't done anything that extreme, just constant low level stuff, testing our boundaries. I expect there's MUCH more to come

You are clearly a very reasonable carer, who is trying hard to work with the school and I'm sure they appreciate that. And I would definitely push them on the online thing. Its totally the norm now for parents to access information on the curriculum via a parent portal. The school I work in has information about topics covered each half term for each Year group, plus exam syllabuses, homeworks, plus plenty of other info. It may be that the more parents push for that, the sooner they'll get on with it.

As for

"But, can't teachers deal with bad behaviour in any other way than by sending the pupil out? It seems to me to add up to streaming on the basis of behaviour rather than ability. I'm sure the teacher is delighted to get rid of all the undesirables as early in the day as possible, but oh it's frustrating when your child is one of them." -

actually if a pupil continues to be disruptive (and even low level stuff can prevent other pupils learning) then what other sanctions do teachers have? Issuing detention slips etc is all very well, but if the pupil is continuing to disrupt the lesson, then its only reasonable that they are removed. I also think you're incorrect in your assumption that the teacher is 'delighted' to be rid of the undesirables. The teacher will have to follow up the incident (form filling, calling home etc) Then there's the bigger issue of the fact that the teacher is 'measured' in terms of pupil performance. If a pupil is regularly out of your lessons, then obviously they are likely to achieve their targets - which reflects badly on the teacher - very unfair when its due to pupil failings, not the teacher, but that's the reality we live with.

At the moment I am spending two evenings a week after school supervising some 'catch up' groups for pupils who are seriously at risk of bombing in their exams due to their poor behaviour and frequent 'time outs'. There is no lack of ability; these pupils have just spent so much time pissing about that they are messing up their chances. We have a system whereby senior management run sessions from 4 - 6 pm to help them achieve what they could have done in the classroom. And of course that's not to mention all the other after school booster sessions run by subject teachers.

So, in short, continue to keep communication open with the school, but bear in mind that there will be an awful lot going on behind the scenes which you may not even be aware of, and ultimately, the school will only be removing your DN if he is damaging others' education.

Hope things look up for you (and your DN) soon

Sorry - that should be:

"If a pupil is regularly out of your lessons, then obviously they are UNlikely to achieve their targets "

my DS (13) was on report and the teachers just made a comment. no scoring. He was put in seclusion for a full day for what he did in his french lesson. in seclusion, they lose break times and their lunch is brought to them. they use the toilet that is in that room and get let out at 4pm.
however DS enjoyed it in seclusion as he was given cups of coffee and sweets. what was the point of putting him in there.
Then the science teacher phoned me. She was calling all the parents of that class as the kids just wouldn't settle down to do work. she then went on about how she had seen he had been report and thought it was funny what he did in french

GiddyPickle - I had missed the bit about swearing at a teacher. Yes, that's in a completely different league, not low level at all.

The OPs DN may have a very difficult background, but the point is, even when children are from abusive or neglectful backgrounds, it is never acceptable for them to act out this abusive behaviour towards other people. It just becomes a cycle - the victim of a poor childhood then becomes the perpetrator against others.

No teacher deserves to be told to Fuck Off, or to have offensive personal remarks made to them. This kind of thing happens daily in schools, and is should never be seen as 'low level' - it's a slippery slope towards normalising this kind of abuse

Giddy and Violet thanks very much for such long and interesting posts.

First of all, I would point out DN didn't swear at a teacher. That would have been a massive deal. A child in his class called him a name, actually he called him a weirdo. DN told him to eff off, but it came out loud and the teacher heard. The teacher told me he looked immediately contrite but of course quite rightly she sent him out. I told him to apologise to her the next day and he did (I checked).

I am pretty livid now. I gave DN overnight to calm down and reflect. I've been out, I came back and spoke to him just now and asked him to tell me what happened with the report card and he is STILL maintaining he only altered the one I caught him out on. I told him I would be checking with the school tomorrow and he just said if you want, looked sulky and went back into his room. As there's no doubt the card was altered I'll have to take it in tomorrow and see if the school can verify how many numbers were changed. Then I think he'll miss a night's computer per digit. Or all next week depending on his attitude.

I do take on board the over-enthusiasm with rewards. We have actually come a long way, but as DN finds his feet and gets more confident we may have to toughen up.

By the way, I would never treat him differently and have asked granny to see a counsellor to explain to her why it is a bad idea to do this because she doesn't believe me.

The real problem here is I'm shouldering all this side of things, while DP works all hours and certainly does not play the role of father so desperately needed.

Mamateur, I'm a teacher in a secondary school. A large part of my job is to work with the less well behaved kids.

I think some posters on here are wrong to berate you for rewarding him. When we put a child on report we do try to emphasize the positive, we do use it as a good excuse to praise kids when they do well. If I found out a parent had offered a reward for successful completion of the report I'd simply glad they were taking an interest, because not all of them do.

I can see why, to the average parent it seems odd to reward 'normal' behaviour, but that is coming from a point of view where decent behaviour is indeed normal. If your DN has not been taught to behave as he should, then of course it is going to be hard for him to master at first.

His 'doctoring' of the report shows he values your reward, and also your approval. This in itself can be turned into a positive.

You sound like you're doing a good job...I wish you luck.