to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

I've just read this article in the Guardian weekend supplement about the drudgery of motherhood and the inequality of it: 'mums are just mums while dads add that to a list of other identities.'

For me, motherhood can be a tedious, exhausting, thankless task some of the time. I often nag my husband for not helping enough but when he does I criticise him, I act the martyr - doing things DH has offered to do, I moan a lot about how knackered I am, how much of a mess I look, how fed up I am with being taken for granted/not helped etc etc and it is true - that's how I feel...sometimes. I sometimes resent my husband for being able to go to work and talk to other adults about non baby stuff. On the other hand the thought of me having to go back to work full time after I spent years TTC and having ICSI to get pg seems stupid. Babies grow up quickly and I don't want to miss out on it - even the dull, messy, tiring days. I manage to scrape a bit of an income together workign a few hours a week from home. I feel a bit inadequate - but I think that often goes hand in hand with being a mother and having to constantly make important choices. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.

I also love being a mum even if I don't always love the day to day grind. I can put up with the crap bits just to have the lovely cuddles, the giggles and tickles, days out, trips to school to see my kids' teacher and hear how fab my kids are. I am really proud of my children and I glow when people compliment me on them. For me that is what being a mother is about - knowing that I am doing an okay job and raising my little ones to be happy, healthy and confident people. I might not get a medal for it, but an occasional kind word from someone that gives me a boost is all I need to keep me going. For now I am happy being 'just a mum' because I being a mum to tiny ones is such a temporary, fleeting period in my life. I do have other identities, aspirations, interests and ambitions and I will pursue them when I feel ready.

In May I gave birth to my second set of twins and aside from my husband, I don't really have anyone to turn to for help. My extended family are 300 miles away, so sometimes being a parent is a struggle and not always as carefree and fun as I dreamed it would be - but I made my bed. I wanted to have babies more than I ever wanted anything before in my life - and I would never want to go back to the DINK life. I feel really lucky to be experiencing motherhood and thankful too. I think infertility does that to you.

I think you deserve a medal to be honest. Two sets of twins If the ok days outweigh the crap days then you are doing very well indeed in my book. Bloody well done.

Two, well done. We had 3 under 4 at one point (but both worked full time so had that break from the children every day) and then had the twins later but again still both worked full time. It sounds you prefer to be home with them than not.

It woudl be an interesting study - that if those who have chidlren by IVF whether male or female parents even want to be stay at home parents more than those of us who got pregnant in 1 or 2 tries.

Its like everything else - washing all the windows, doing a hard project at work, doing your driving test.... Its difficult but its how you handle it. I'm no Pollyanna but you just got to put yourself in the right frame of mind. You've got to find the fun.

If you'd rather be at work for 14 hours a day or in a nightclub then motherhood is perhaps not for you. If your whole self image and confidence is tied up in your looks and money then you'll probably also find it a challenge at times.

I haven't had a minutes doubt about parenthood - its awesome. I haven't really had any of those negative feelings like in the article. My husband is very nice, we still like each other - I still think I'm pretty. We also found new things to like and respect about each other. I have really nice friends-with-children. I know I'm very lucky but I think a lot of that is due to my attitude. That sounds a bit smug - I'm not, just want you to see that parenthood (under usual circumstances) is what you make it.

Really glad to read this thread
I am 11 weeks into life with dd2 and dd1 ( almost 3)
I will start with a positive, both kids were settled asleep by 730 tonight
dp is working late again so I have the house to myself
I poured a small glass of red, popped on some music and read through most of this thread ( I consider this to be a luxury and feel quite content right now- the glass of red is working!!)

However there are parts of the day or even whole days when things just go wrong and I often feel like I am trapped in a nightmare ( screaming unsettled dd1, tantrums from dd1, dp forgetting to change tesco order so I have waited in all morning for nothing etc)
some times I am able to keep perspective and I tell myself that for every bad/tough day there will be a good one. I admit that I dont always keep perspective and that at some point most days I do cry ( exhaustion and hormones)

second time round it is definetely easier as you know there will be an end to the screaming and 2hrly feeding and the sleepless nights. First time round I felt like I went into mourning for my previous life and I was very grateful to go back to work part time

In terms of division of labour first time round dp thought he could just carry on as before, leaving me to do all the chores and childcare, a few harsh words were had and he changed. He helps out massively now in lots of different ways, he works very very long hours to provide for the family and I am very grateful and lucky he changed his attitude

like everything in life you have to take the rough with the smooth

oops meant unsettled screaming dd2 ( actucally dd1 is like that sometimes too)

too exhausted after a long day to read every single post, so apologies if it's been said before. I thought it was a great article about motherhood, and I'll definitely be buying the book.

It is what motherhood is like, really, unless you are either very well-suited for the role, or extremely unflustered by life and willing to throw yourself into new things. I think her main point was not about kids vs not kids, but the assumption that women get left doing the work. Everyone needs to have an honest conversation with their partner before they have children and decide who's looking after the children after they're born, and how much it's reasonable to share duties if you're the one full-time at work.

Besides which I think everyone needs the experience of looking after them for a week or two, so you know what it's like. I feel extremely joyful about my life with three children in it, and in the longterm I'm much happier than I would have been otherwise. I don't notice so much of the shit these days, but when I first had a baby, I was overwhelmed with desperation and exhaustion and emotions that I couldn't handle.

I think articles like this are helpful because

1. they raise the point that men need to do their share and understand how difficult solo parenting feels, and also that society needs to expect men to do their share and
2. they tell prospective parents that things can be tough. I don't like being talked down to and told it's all roses, when there's a lot of poo and not much sleep. So I appreciate being told to expect the worst, and being able to have a conversation with my partner about it before it happens. But possibly that's just me.

Haven't had time to read the whole thread - sorry! But just wanted to jump in and say that from what I read, she wasn't saying "motherhood is awful", but "motherhood can often tip the scales into inequality in a previously equal relationship". I certainly recognise that sentiment - before kids, DH and I had a very equal relationship, both working long hours, both earning fairly equal amounts, but after 8 years of parenthood, he is now well-paid and working even longer hours, and I am working part time and by default seem to be responsible for 80% of the household stuff - not so much the obvious stuff like cooking and washing up, which we still split fairly equitably, but the more insidious stuff like knowing what DD1 needs for school each day, or buying party presents for DD2 to take.

The best way I ever heard motherhood - indeed, parenthood - described was: "it's the best of times and the worst of times". That sums it up for me.

Cheered and inspired by your post, jjkm.

BambinoBoo - I think having children is a bit like being on drugs. Oh the highs, but oh the lows...

It's funny but I wonder if it is different in the UK. Here in the States where mat leave is so short, I can honestly say that most of the people I have met, feel a little bit sorry for people who have no choice but to go back to work.

Staying at home is seen as a very positive thing and kind of a luxury that you are lucky to afford. I feel so lucky to have the choice not to go back to work but I have never enjoyed life more than motherhood- going to awful toddler group where i meet awful people who are awfully pleasurable to chat to mostly.

Do people in the UK really look down on SAHM? I just can't imagine that- I just assume that many people who 'need' to go back to work have some sort of psychological make up that means their identity depends on their paid work- I guess I am grateful to just not be like that but I really think a lot of paid work is really rather dull and less stimulating than contributing to the development of a little being- it is just no longer about you when you become a mum. What a joy that is- to no longer be at the centre of all that you do.

Being a SAHM can be what you make it and it depends on your financial situation as much as anything else.

If you have plenty of money you can pay a cleaner, pay for nursery days and enjoy a lovely home perhaps a hobby etc etc.

A completely different scenario from living in a tower block on benefits.

Wanted to add, most women I know work at least part time so being a full time SAHM with kids in school IS seen as an enviable luxury.

All this stuff about the mother taking on all the responsibity is really depressing. Before I had ds (unplanned) I had already decided that dh would be as competent as me in childcare. He is and has always been better at housework than me. TBH I think it is utterly sad to stand over your dp critising as he changes a nappy or whatever. I accept there are some things you have no control over, but I would say having a non-participant partner is not one of those.

The author of the article will be online this lunchtime if you wish to express anything to her

Bramshott read my mind (or is living my life for me) - love my kids, love my DH but life has slowly but surely tipped and there is no work-life balance for me or him now (whatever that is). BUT my kids are now 7 and 10 and the baby boredom/tiredness/frustrations etc do disappear over just a few years and parenthood continues forever. I know they are small for so little time but I actually love being able to have great (and funny) conversations with my children now they are not toddlers and look forward to them getting older.

Remind me of that last line when they're both teenagers...

Life with or without children can be hard, grinding, exhausting. Being a mum makes your life different - you can't really say it is worse or better than your life at this very moment would have been without them because you haven't lived in that parallel universe - I have no idea what I'd be doing right now if DD and DS didn't exist. (Unlikely to be MNing I s'pose!)

Look I love my dd but I don't always love motherhood.
This week has been a worst case scenario. DD was ill all wknd with gatroentonitus. I spent my Saturday night cleaning up vomit and washing towels and sheets.
Just as she started to recover she gets chicken pox. It is my birthday on Thursday and I was going to go to a spa with my lovely dp and relax WITHOUT dd. Now we can't go because the childminder won't have dd with chicken pox. Dp is amazing and says it dosn't matter because we can go somewhere with dd but inside I am screaming; I NEED TO GO TO SPA AND SODDING RELAX AND GET AWAY FROM THE GRIND JUST FOR ONE FUCKING DAY; MY BIRTHDAY!!!!
Ok I am unlucky but this is what can happen if you have kids. DD is worth it but if I said I'd rather go out for the day with dd than go to the spa for my birthday I'd be a liar.

My dp works Saturday nights so he couldn't really do much to help but he did do some laundry and cleaning the next day.

The basic issue is women are stupid if they accept sexist relationships and men are wrong if they don't do their share.
For me you achieve that fairnees by working full time or even well outearning men.

Never tolerate sexism even for a day.

missslc - you definitely made me think twice about your post and this issue, and we are lucky in the UK to have leave after a baby is born - we should be grateful for that and not take it for granted. But after we have won the right to have leave to spend with a new baby, we should also fight for men to have the right to do that too. Having a baby is hard work, whether you stay at home or go to work, and I believe this author is making the point that men should do their share, also that men shouldn't be shut out of this part of life, since it is hard work and rewarding in equal measure.

Xenia - you put it really well.

Xenia Tue 29-Mar-11 19:25:29
The basic issue is women are stupid if they accept sexist relationships and men are wrong if they don't do their share.
For me you achieve that fairnees by working full time or even well outearning men.

My dp and I have equality despite me having stayed home to bring up our six children

gee thanks for copying a post 1 below yours.is that just in case we missed it,for the hard of reading?

you know what xenia is bang on about this, if you tolerate and perhaps unwittingly facilitate a lazy git partner who leaves all domestic tasks to you then yes you need to take a look at yourself. such partners get away with it because they can - consciously or unconsciously it is allowed and facilitated

can see it loads on mn esp in aibu. long post that dp/dh is a lazy git who does sweet fa and then list of tasks she does
washing up
laundry
tidying
pay bills
make dinner
blah blah...

well if he has a live in domestic who undertakes everything ,chances are he will let it continue.

so stop skivvying about
let his laundry etc pile up
have a look at how you slipped into such a subordinate role

I'd agree with the first part of Xenia's post. But for me, you achieve fairness by having a decent partner, being willing to give him equal responsibility and talking through labour division before the child is born.

I was hardly earning at all when dcs were born, but I still made it clear to dh (not that he needed it) that I would expect a certain type of father for my children and that this was nothing to do with money. Dh has never thought that a person's opinions count for less if they are earning less money. I don't need to out-earn him or earn as much as him (though I'm getting there) to carry equal weight in family discussions. If he had had that kind of value system, I would not still be married to him.