Splitting Hairs?

[blueemerald]

Hi, first post!

I work as an LSA in a girls' secondary school. I spend most of my time with 2 girls with a variety of SEN in Year 8. We were in English today. The class is low ability and around 26 students. Every child has English as an Additional Language (and are in the early stages of learning English) and the two I work with are statemented (one also has EAL). They are all religious (Muslim or Catholic in this case).

To get to the point, we were discussing a scene from the play adapted from Flour Babies. We were discussing why Simon's dad might have left his family and one girl suggested (as a joke) that he might be gay. The teacher said that this was a good reason but why would a gay man marry and have children with a woman. Another girl replied "To seem normal" and the teacher accepted this as the reason.

AIBU to think that to use the word normal to describe heterosexual people only is not acceptable, particularly when many of these girls regularly display a negative attitude towards homosexuality (talk of going to Hell, being evil or dirty etc.)? Or did the teacher not want to get bogged down in dissecting specific words as their understanding is quite limited.

And, should I mention it to her or just continue to gently disagree with these opinions when I hear them?

I think you are over-thinking this! Since when did the word 'normal' become part of the PC Brigade? Since when did SEN children not be able to use the word 'normal'?? FFS.

I quite see your point, but you could be in danger of over-stepping your remit here. Kids could just take 'normal' to mean 'fitting in' in this case.

I dont think it is your place to mention anything really.

I see your point too but I'm with Sloggies & Squeaky on this one.

Umm like the others I see your point, but by definition heterosexual is the norm, because the majority of people are. Perhaps if you still don't feel satisfied you could ask the teacher to start a discussion about this, how something can be not normal but acceptable.

chill out, your are putting too much emphasis on the word 'normal'.

The Muslim faith would kill in some cases one of their children if they were homosexual.

My son had a friend at school who was from a strict Muslim family, the poor kid knew he was gay, but was terrified his parents would find out and he would get killed.

It's their way to believe that homosexuals are the devil incarnate.

Not much you can do about others religious beliefs but I wouldn't pander to it.

I think you are looking at this in the wrong way - it seems like they were being quite perceptive.

It depends if they were implying "they wanted to seem normal because being gay is wrong"

Or

"they wanted to seem normal to society in general because there is prejudice against gay people"

I would be uneasy about that. However as some have said it is correct to refer to the majority as normal. It can be insulting, but it depends on the intent. In this case everyone knew what the girl meant and it was even a likely answer.

In any case a teacher who picked up on every word out of place would never get through a lesson.

I think that's quite profound for a Year 8 child with SEN. I'd be proud of her thinking that deeply, and definitely not upset with the teacher who sounds like he was doing a good job.

In a childs eyes people are "normally attracted to members of the opposite sex", children think literally, and no matter how politically correct you want to be, having a mum and dad is "normal". A man being married to another man is "not normal" in a childs eyes, or in the eyes of a lot of other people either, and certainly not in the muslim or devout catholic religion. You (or the teacher) cannot start interfering with religious beliefs, as that is just not fair on the child.

I read it as the girl being perceptive too. Men do get married and have children to appear normal.

It shouldnt have to happen but it does.

It doesnt have to mean she is saying being straight is normal and gay is abnormal, rather that gay men have had to fit into societal norms in order to escape predjudice.

LadyThumb- Sorry if I didn't make it clear but the two students invovled do not have SEN, they are amongst the higher ability children in that set. The two students I am there to help have SEN.

Squeaky and Sloggies- I find it slightly insulting that you consider it not my place to intervene. If a student said something racist or sexist I would not hesitate to intervene along with the teacher. I believe it shows a staff united front. I also spend far more time with these students than each teacher does (I am with them for 22 periods a week whereas, for example, this teacher sees them for 4 periods a week) Luckily all the teachers I work with agree with me and know that I know each student better than they possibly could and often approach me for suggestions on how to approach a topic. Frankly, if I hadn't intervened in the past this class would have been taught that the Earth rotates every 12 hours and various other fallacies

I think, upon reflection, I am being too sensitive but I suppose it's another indication of the blasé attitude shown towards beliefs demonstrated by these normally kind and generous girls that I consider questionable and, in the extreme, are illegal in this country.

I would not suggest the teacher repremand the student but perhaps modelling correct behaviour, for example
Student A "To seem normal."
Teacher "Do you mean to fit in with other people" etc.

I don't think it's your place either to be honest.

The qualified teacher probably understands the fact that lots of gay people do marry and have children to seem 'normal' to the outside world...and that this is probably what the child was getting at.

The teacher may well be planning a future discussion on the subject for all you know. Sometimes it is best to stick to assisting the teacher in their job rather than criticise them.

Knowing this teacher she isn't planning a future discussion, it was a spontaneous suggestion from the first girl who whispered it to her neighbour as a joke.

I am capable of understanding that a lot of gay people get married and that is demonstrated as normal to child - I don't think I need to qualify to realise that! :) My point was that these children often vocalise extreme homophobia (as well as sexist and theist views) and so I don't think it could be assumed that this is what this child meant.

I don't mean to criticise her, she is a great teacher with quite a difficult class (we have a lot of mid-year admissions and they are automatically allocated to the lower ability sets and then moved after a few weeks) and I realise how difficult it can be to juggle dozens of concerns in your mind at the same time- I am hoping to get a place on my English PGCE for September and I'm learning a lot already!

Every child has English as an Additional Language (and are in the early stages of learning English)

So we have deduced an extended vocabulary has yet to be learned?

No, did any child in the class get offeneded at the word 'normal'? no? most excellent! So they can understand what is being dicussed.

Normal = mainstream in their eyes.

Why the hek people feel the need to get offended on others behalf is beyond me.

Really to assist teachers you do need to understand how children often express themselves openly and honestly...it's the beauty of innocent kids. They say what they mean without having their minds clouded with politically correct jargon when they are simply trying to make a valid point.

And the child does have a valid point. A lot of gay people marry and have kids to appear 'normal'..that is a fact and particularly in certain religions.

again, you need to chill out a bit. 'normal' is not a swear word.

If the teacher had of corrected the pupil it may have knocked their confidence or broke the flow of the lesson. However if you hear a homophobic comment, you can correct it, without making to much of a fuss and speak to the teacher after lessons. The word 'normal' is not the same as 'the norm' the teacher lost an opportunity to simply re-phrase the pupils answer. Using the term normal can suggest that anything different is not normal, or wrong. The use of language has helped to change people's attitudes and make life more tolarable. Being SEN pupils and not being part of the majority will make them likely to be subjected to ignorance, so a planned lesson on accepting difference, and why others find it difficult to accept difference, would be a good idea. I wonder if they had been discussing a black pupil using pale makeup and the reason was given 'to be normal' as the answer, would others then agree that a re-phrasing wasn't in order?.

Actually OP, I agree with you. There is an enormous amount of low-level homophobia which goes on in the classroom, and it would have been the easiest thing in the world for the teacher to challenge this without blame.

Perhaps the Year 8 girl with SEN (or any other child in the class) is gay- acceptance by a teacher that they are 'not normal' can make a lot of difference to self esteem.

Having said that, the moment has passed, and I would not go to the teacher about it now; rather I would bring the topic up for discussion in another lesson and take it from there.