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AIBU?

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Original poster

Can my DD 'flip homes' for financial benefit?

87 replies

Kosmik · 24/03/2011 13:46

My daughter wants to go to university. My husband (her stepdad) earns just a bit too much for her to be eligible for the maintenance grant and says he will not pay for her as he cannot afford it and that her father should be made to contribute.

Her biological father (who she has never lived with since the age of two) I believe is now unemployed or on a very low income as the CSA have assessed him to pay just £5 per week maintenance for her. If she was living with him while at uni she would probably be able to claim the full grant (2,901 per year)

Would it be feasible in such a situation for my daughter to 'flip homes' to the lower earning parent in order to be eligible for the grant? Has anyone ever tried this?

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 24/03/2011 14:52

Yes you could do it but her dad would have to agree- you can't not tell him.

Is there a reason why you can't help her out financially?

Also why doesn't she just get a student loan for the fees? Then she can pay it back (eventually when she earns £25k) without doing something morally a bit suspect.

higgle · 24/03/2011 14:54

I am very shocked about how rude posters have been about the OP's husbands attitude here. It sounds as if this man has had to pay to bring up his step daughter thus far, as the natural father is totally feckless, and as he is supporting another child through uni. it seems reasonable enough to me to ask that OP's daughter relies on the loans tha tmost students have to.
My DH and I have a pretty good total income but we cannot afford for DS 1 not to have a maintenance loan. We send him a small amount of money each month as most of the loan goes on rent and food but it would be totally out of the question for us to do this for 2 children at the same time ( and will be difficult enough to do it for one after the other)

FabbyChic · 24/03/2011 14:59

I said about the step father because it is only due to his earnings that the poor child cannot get the maintenance part of the student loan. However, as someone has said why can't the mother pay it instead?

GoldenGreen · 24/03/2011 15:03

I have just googled re: the hb and there shouldn't be any deductions from hb for a full time student except in the summer holiday - Fabby was the student living with you maybe part time?

FabbyChic · 24/03/2011 15:04

Yes the student was living with me, the same as the student would be expected to live with her dad if it is his address that is used.

Original poster
Kosmik · 24/03/2011 15:05

I have not mentioned this to ExP, I thought I would see what advice Mumsnetters could give.I don't KNOW if ExP is on benefits or working fewer hours - he keeps his cards very close to his chest and does not speak to me. I have struggled on my own with 2 DDs since they were age 3 and 4 while he has worked abroad and have been unable to get any maintenance from him until last year when the CSA assessed him at £55 per week. A bit late as they are nearly adults now! He paid up for 6 weeks and the money stopped again and I recently got a letter from the CSA saying there had been a change of circumstances and they had reassessed him to pay £5 per week so I'm assuming his income dropped or he is out of work.

In contrast my DH has always paid maintenance for his DD and supported her in lots of other ways which he continues to do.

I know it will never work anyway as ExP would probably not be co-operative, he will be furious with me for managing to get some maintenance through the CSA from him after all those years getting off scott-free! I was just interested to know if it was within the rules for students to flip homes. Just being curious!

OP posts:
FabbyChic · 24/03/2011 15:08

Ask him you should.

The majority of students can live on what they get in Student Loans/Grants, thats assuming they get the maintenance grant.

My son has attended Uni for four years and has managed extremely well. They don't need extra money to survive.

If your partners daughter already gets the maintenance grant she really does not need further help. Maybe you could find away to pull your belts in and help her for the first year when he doesn't get it.

Ask your ex if you can use his address for her for the next year. He shouldn't say no it's the least he can do.

vj32 · 24/03/2011 15:59

You have to submit financial information for the parent and household the child normally lives with or has most contact with. So to put her Dad down would be a lie, and would be fraud. Would you get caught? Probably not. Not a good example to set your daughter though.

If you have a household income over £50,000ish you don't get a grant.
But you can get a tuition fee loan and 72% of the maximum maintenance loan without household income being taken into account at all- they are received by everyone.

And to make more money to live on - she has to work. I worked every summer through uni and when I couldn't quite make ends meet in my second year worked during term time as well. Uni summer holidays are very long - about 3 months - so you can build up alot of savings, plus unless she goes over her personal allowance she won't pay tax. Try local supermarkets and anything that is seasonal like theme parks/attractions as they will employ alot of young people for the summer. The uni will also offer quite a few jobs to students.

vaginiasmonalogue · 24/03/2011 16:01

Can't blame her oh for not wanting to shell out, he's brought her up with little contribution from her bio father.

Baffledandbewildered · 24/03/2011 16:36

Kosmik is hard for kids at uni do whatever it takes ie change address ect. Getting jobs when at uni is not easy either. Ignor people having a dig at you and dp. To find an extra £40 every week is not easy for any parent/step parent. Hopefully her dad will be cooperative and get all the forms in early as student finance are not great and often require more forms and proof than they initially ask for. You are doing what is best for your daughter well done

vj32 · 24/03/2011 16:40

baffled - you happily teach your children to lie all the time do you?

Uni students don't need money from their parents - nice if they can give it, but they can and do live off loans and working. Uni is about education and about starting to live as an adult, rather than just living off your parents all the time. Otherwise you might as well stay at home.

vaginiasmonalogue · 24/03/2011 16:51

Can't blame her oh for not wanting to shell out, he's brought her up with little contribution from her bio father.

mollymole · 24/03/2011 17:27

so you are considering asking your daughter to lie and cheat - what has she done to deserve that ??

cumfy · 24/03/2011 18:24

Have you filled the forms in ?

What happens if you refuse ?
There must be a default scenario.
Sound like you need some legal advice.

splashyy · 24/03/2011 19:13

comfy if parents refuse to declare their income, the atudent gets the minimum loan, and no grant. Otherwise everyone would be abusing the system!

Happylander · 24/03/2011 19:30

I think your DH is right to say no tbh. He has no financial obligations to yours and your exH daughter and find it strange that people have been abusive about him saying no. Do you pay money for his daughter??? If I split from my DH and then met someone else I would not expect them to financially provide for my child.

Anyway I can't see it working for this year but I would tell your daughter to get a job. Thats what I had to do as I was a mature student and so my parents didn't have to help. I worked 3-4 nights a week as a health care assistant plenty of work in that area.

hairylights · 24/03/2011 19:43

it would be fraud.

satanrejectedmysoul · 24/03/2011 20:02

How is it fraud if she goes to live with her bio father and his income is used in the assessment rather than the stepdad? He is her parent after all!

pinkstinks · 24/03/2011 20:15

My mums girlfriend earns too much money for me to ge tthe maintanance grant because it goes on household income.
My mum payed two thirds of the bills when I lived there (before i started contributing)
It is rubbish that my dad doesnt have to contribute - but he hasnt all his life and tbh I wouldnt want him to as he already thinks i and my degree and worthless enough!
At the end of the day you just have to suck it up and get on with it. No point resenting it, I had to get two jobs! But the end is almost in sight and I have done it on my own. I used my gap year to work in a solicitors and payed my first year of uni up front all by myself! So only two years of debt for me!
What annoys me is the way that expect parents to help you out - even on the hardship fund form they make sure you have 'exhausted all other means of monetary access'
It can be done, and it teaches you valuable priorites and life lessons, such as if you dont get a job you cant eat. Of course there are all the rich kids here who get funded by mummy and daddy, but to be honest in the real world they dont have a clue!

Baffledandbewildered · 24/03/2011 20:41

Vj don't fall of your high horse!!!!!! Does the sun always shine in your perfect world? No I do not teach my children to lie but if using one parents income instead of the other would make my Childs time at uni a little easier I would do it. These kids will pay back so much more than we ever had to, so they won't get much for free. Instead of having to work two or three jobs bizarrely I would like mine to study whilst at uni .....just call me old fashioned. People should walk a mile in peoples shoes before they criticise and dontmake sweeping judgements

meditrina · 24/03/2011 20:45

It would only be a lie if

A) she did not actually move in with her father, and/or
B) she did not declare correctly the dates she was living with each household.

satanrejectedmysoul · 24/03/2011 21:36

I don't think home flipping for financial gain is against the law. Here is how our leaders do it: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8067929.stm

vj32 · 24/03/2011 21:46

I am unlikely to ever pay off my student loans - despite working through uni and working at a professional job ever since. What the govt etc don't seem to realise is that lots of people (especially women) are not going to ever pay all these loans back. And I have spent hours and hours on the phone to the SLC to be told that they cannot calculate how much I actually owe so even if I wanted to pay it off, I can't do it anyway.

So yes, I do actually know what I am talking about, and sitting here with somewhere around £14k of student loans I think it is still wrong to lie and to start out your adult life cheating the system. From there it is no more of a step to cheat for more benefits and any other 'free money' you can get your hands on.

tyler80 · 25/03/2011 09:32

Another one who has been working and paying off student loans for 8 years, and at the current rate will finally clear them when I'm 63 - woo hoo. Under the current system they're written off earlier and under the new system they're written off earlier and you need to be earning more before you pay back. So I don't think there's any justification for fiddling.

That there'll be huge numbers of students who'll never pay their loans back is a whole different argument.

JazzAnnNonMouse · 25/03/2011 10:39

I can't believe how many people think that it's the parents or step parents responsibility to PAY for university. She is an adult and it's her choice whether she goes to university or not, perhaps she could work? (some courses when they say full time mean full time- like mine! But others are only in for 2 or 3 hours per week - I wish!)
I'm currently a student and I think it is ridiculous that they take in your parents income especially as I didn't even live at home ( DP and I moved out, worked etc) but you have to be financially independent for 3 years before they take only your earnings into consideration.
you're free to put whoever you like as the person who will be financially assessed - for the financial assessment there is a LOT of paper work and you have to send it lots of information.
She will be fine on the loan alone but the grant would be a nice added extra (especially as you don't have to pay it back)
But honestly if the flipping homes doesn't work she will be absolutely fine on the money from the loan (you get two loans NOT based on household income - meaning regardless of income everyone gets the same unless you choose not to - one for tuition fees which goes straight to the uni and a maintainance loan which goes to the students bank account quarterly)

It's also cheaper to live NOT on campus as uni accommodation is much more expensive in my experience than house shares. If she wants the experience of halls then she will still be fine for money.

DP and I manage to have a one bedroom flat, pay all of our bills,rent, food etc on our student loans. It's certainly not our parents responsibility to pay for us (although we are older than straight from school as we worked and lived together etc) I really do think a gap year is amazing for budgeting - especially if you move out. I'm only 2 years older than most but it really makes a difference in terms of maturity and responsibility!