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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

if the universe is infinite which I always thought it was as if there isn't a universe there isn't anything why..

92 replies

Ormirian · 21/03/2011 12:37

Prof Cox insists on talking about hundreds of billions of galaxies. Because even a 1000000000 is a number and it isn't infinity.

He keeps using these BIG numbers but surely all he needs to say is 'an infinite number' or even 'lots and lots'. Both of which are more correct.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Chil1234 · 21/03/2011 12:45

You're technically/literally correct but, because infinity is a difficult concept to grasp or visualise, he's dumbing it down to a dramatically impressive number that we can possibly get our heads around.

Original poster
Ormirian · 21/03/2011 12:53

Hmmmm maybe. But I think that 'infinite' is as good a short-hand as 'big numbers' Grin

Still loving all the lovely swirly twinkly pictures though.

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Lancelottie · 21/03/2011 12:53

No, he's not using 'big number' to replace infinite -- he really does mean that there are a limited number of galaxies (and a limited amount of matter) in the universe, all stemming from a hell of a big woomph at the start of all things.

Oh, and there isn't anything outside the universe because, errm, time and space have expanded together from the dawn of time...

turdass · 21/03/2011 12:57

I thought that the universe was continuously expanding? DH who knows about such things tells me that the biggest number is graham's number.

Original poster
Ormirian · 21/03/2011 12:57

But it isn't neccessarily hundreds of billions is it? No-one knows how many.

OP posts:
GabbyLoggon · 21/03/2011 12:58

the young prof is in danger of mistaking theories for facts.

I gather the music has been complained about. Have they dumbed it down a bit.?

Original poster
Ormirian · 21/03/2011 13:01

Who's this Graham then?

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Lancelottie · 21/03/2011 13:03

Cor. Just googled Graham's number. Suddenly the number of galaxies in the universe looks like a nice easy little problem to wrestle with.

Gabby, I should think the 'young prof' does know he's discussing theory, but adding 'the best guess so far on the limited evidence we have but backed up by calculations that might make them right within, ooh, a factor of 10*' in front of every sentence would get in the way of the music.

*or 100, or maybe a million, but hey, who's counting?

kenobi · 21/03/2011 13:03

If there's nothing outside the universe, what is it expanding into?
And why do I always feel like my skin is too tight when I think about this sort of stuff?

SummerRain · 21/03/2011 13:10

The universe contains exactly the same amount of mass as it did right after the big bang.... it's the space in between everything that's expanding.

LB29 · 21/03/2011 13:19

Lots and lots or a large number of would indicate a finite amount of something.

An infinite amount is never ending.

They are completely different! Nothing is being dumbed down in that respect.

I do agree that he should make it known that they are theories that he is discussing and not fact.

Original poster
Ormirian · 21/03/2011 13:22

That's what I said. Big numbers do not indicate infinity.

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MooMooFarm · 21/03/2011 13:25

How does anybody know it's infinite? Surely that's just a theory? And if there's any possibility it's not infinite, what's at the end where it stops? And why do I see a big brick wall in my head when I think about that?

Am really enjoying the series but it makes me feel slightly panicky Confused

kenobi · 21/03/2011 13:26

Did SummerRain just slam a door at me? Humph.

Nah never mind. I have learned three things today - what Godwin's Law is, courtesy of purveyorofwoo, what graham's number is courtesy of turdass and that it is space that is expanding, NOT mass, courtesy of stroppy-ass SummerRain.

Not bad for a monday! < twirls off to do some work >

kenobi · 21/03/2011 13:27

MooMooFarm - yes! it's that panicky sensation that makes my skin feel too small!

Hassled · 21/03/2011 13:28

While we're on the subject, is it all going to go tits-up for us when the sun dies, or when the Milky Way collides with Andromeda? Because Brian has said both. Will the death of the sun be as the galaxies collide - is it a simultaneous tits-up scenario?

MooMooFarm · 21/03/2011 13:29

Probably not related, but I suffer from vertigo sometimes. And when I do, I (seriously) wonder if I am just 'tuned in' to the spinning of the earth, and nobody else is.

I'll shut up now Blush

LB29 · 21/03/2011 13:31

Have only seen the first one moomoo. What is meant to be infinite?

Infinity isn't a concept that can be grasped the the human brain. We have to be able to compare to our everyday experiences and one doesn't exist.

Original poster
Ormirian · 21/03/2011 13:31

hassled - either way we're doooomed! Doooomed I tell you.

OP posts:
Inertia · 21/03/2011 13:32

The hundreds of billions of galaxies is an estimate based on how many galaxies are observed in a particular region of space, and scaling up appropriately.

I don't see how either infinite or lots and lots is more correct. We can't know for sure whether the universe is infinite or whether it contains an infinite amount of galaxies, and 'lots' is pretty vague. The hundreds of billions estimate might be wrong, but it is an estimate based on measurements.

LB29 · 21/03/2011 13:33

Hassled- the sun will become a red giant at around the same time that the milky way collides with andromeda.

SummerRain · 21/03/2011 13:33

The universe isn't infinite. It has a finite mass

Inertia · 21/03/2011 13:34

And there's a great book describing the different types of infinity, if anyone's interested (The Infinite Book by John D Barrow).

kenobi · 21/03/2011 13:36

SummerRain - what about parallel universes? I thought lots of people think this is a poss and not just sci-fi?

< extends a hand holding a glass of Wine round door, stands well back >

Original poster
Ormirian · 21/03/2011 13:36

Yes I am interested inertia. Will have a look for it.

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