To think the atheists on MN are a bunch of miserable whingers

[GothAnneGeddes]

Every bloody week it's a new thread whining on about how terrible it is that there is religion in the world.

A prominent feature of such threads is the intolerance and stupidity of religious folk, yet threads by believers insulting atheists are very rare.

Besides, aren't you all meant to be so happy to be freed from the shackles of religion, that you're too busy having fun to moan?

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Why do people think a belief in God/higher power means you have to also be religious? It is one of the biggest assumptions.

Plently of people believe in 'something' but do not want to be a part of organised religion

Slug, that's really interesting, I was making the point though that medical science understands quite a lot about the brain, you can measure activity in certain areas as an example, but you can't in all certainty read someone?s thoughts.

The point you make about culture is really significant. Years ago I read a book about mental health work in Africa. The hospitals were horrendous and the treatment very limited. The doctor who wrote about his work said that there was a huge confusion amongst native medical doctors and the general population about "madness"

One woman recounted her story about her son talking in different voices (which was common in their tribe) the elders sent him off into the forest to train with a native witch doctor. Eventually he was brought to the hospital and diagnosed with schizophrenia.

In western cultures he would have been diagnosed earlier and recieved treatment, in some cultures and cirumstances he would have been percieved as a great holy man.

Oh Wamster. You really don't think their are scientist who also believe in God? Some scientists aren't quite as rigid, and perhaps more rebellious than you would like to believe. Some dare to live outside the tick-boxes.

I have also read that people who have a strong belief system are happier than those that do not. But atheists do have belief systems. Some of them are humanists, some are socialists, some are moral particularists, some have a belief system based in human ecology.

While atheism itself is not a belief system, that does not mean that atheists don't have a strong belief system.

Many people who believe in God have a belief system - they may be committed Catholics, Hindus or Pagans and they may also be socialists or anarcho-syndicalists. But many other people who believe in God don't have much of a belief system at all surrounding that, and have little religious knowledge at all.

I find it hard to understand why people are complaining about the RE thread. The main person who was defending the teaching of RE was an RE teacher and an atheist. How is she whingeing about religion or saying it is terrible?

Yes I agree with Penquin, Einstien imagined he was riding light beams when he hit upon the idea of relativity.

OK, so it seems as though faith schools are pretty much the only schools left that are both state-funded and high-achieving. Some people on this thread are annoyed that they have to pretend to believe in God in order to get their kids into a good school, and hence would like to abolish God.

This seems like misdirected effort to me. God might or might not exist; if He does He won't pay any attention, and if He doesn't you're wasting your breath.

So wouldn't it be more productive to take a deep breath, have a cup of tea, and redirect your energy into campaigning for more state-funded grammar schools?

I agree with OTheHugeManatee

But if you abolish God and then you abolish faith schools, you are essentially getting rid of the very state-funded and high acheiving school you fought so very hard to get in?

That doesn't seem logical?

DF: actually, there has been plenty of research to support that bizzare theory - religious people are, in general, happier.

People who belong to groups that hold more power generally are happier and have better mental health. If there was no advantage to privilege people would give it up.

Milly, which privilege are you talking about? The privilege that comes from believing in God?

Erm, nonbelievers are not exactly being cruelly excluded from what is essentially a personal choice, are they? They just choose not to. I think moaning about 'privilege' is a bit daft here.

The well known studies that show religious people are happier were done in the USA where atheists are discriminated against (the most well documented examples are police harassment and discrimination in the work place); the religious right also has huge power in the US. It is also financially well supported and can bring court cases - for example having a publishing company stop including Goldilocks in school reading books because the story doesn't follow Christian morality.

In countries where religion has no power - the Netherlands, Scandinavia, studies have shown that religious people are no happier than non-religious people.

Some of the US studies don't even include atheists anyway. They compare those who are very religious to those who are only mildly religious. So it is the extent of someone's adherence to a religious that leads to a benefit, not the spiritual relationship with God.

Slug I find your post about the hallucinations induced by passing electric currents across the temporal lobe and some people being "hard-wired" to see ghosts etc most thought provoking. Would it be reasonable to suppose that this is an evolutionary process, since we are constantly in the process of evolving? If so, has there been any research into which way the process is heading? ie are the 40% a diminishing number or vice versa? Are we, as a species becoming less capable of religious experiences or more so? Either way, any thoughts, published or otherwise from any quarter on why that may be?

Frantic, I did read a while ago that some people are able to perceive frequencies that others can't, so can predict negative events (like a Tsunami). They have tested this by playing the frequency at concerts - the audience could not hear the frequency but a significant proportion (again I seem to remember 40%) left with feelings of dread.

Goth - what's "the acquired taste"? C'mon, you tease, enquiring minds want to know!

I'm an atheist and I never whinge about religion. I even gratefully accept magazines from the Jehovah's Witnesses who call every Sunday. I offer them a copy of the New Scientist in return... they never take it.

Seriously though, I am bit envious of people who can whole heartedly believe the teachings of organised religion. I would be less terrified of death if I thought I would be reunited with my family in the after life.

Auntpolly but does it have to be one or the other- can it not be something inbetween the extrems of wholeheartedly believing (every)teaching or atheism?

MarinaIvy - I'm Muslim.

Gothannegeddes "it would appear that the majority of the country are happy with the status quo, so accept your status as a minority."

Ok yes I'm miserable now. I really hate that sentiment.

It's the same line used to tell any minority - abolishonists, suffragists, gay rights activists, blacks, disability rights activists to shut up and go along with the prevalent norm.

Its a stunted idea of how democracy really works.

I mean, when landlords used to be allowed to discriminate: 'No Blacks, No Jews, No Irish' - the majority of landlords were happy with that, the majority of English neighbours were probably happy. Majority rules is no argument that protects fairness.

Its a good job there have been plenty of wingers through history!

MillyR,

Fascinating about the studies you quote - I always thought there had to be something dodgy about the whole 'research shows that religious = happy' thing.

Could I have some links please?

Oh, and I'm a happy atheist too. I believe in doing right, being unselfish and loving my fellow man. And chocolate. Don't need God to do any of that stuff either.

The one noting the differences between US and some North European countries is from Journal of Happiness Studies 2007.

The stuff about religious power in schools is from a book called 'It's a PC world', which is written by a Journalist who considers how left and right wing groups go about attempting to change language use and what words mean in different ways.

Himalaya - If you see the post directly above yours, you'll understand that I know what it is like to be a religious minority. Hence I don't go about complaining that Xmas is a relgious holiday and Eid isn't.

I see we have the usual chicles being bandied about as though they were true.

"I notice that anti-religious tone isn't directed against other faiths"

This indicates a very self centred attitude. Someone who never notices when other religions get criticised, but screams when it is their own.

In fact all religions get criticised. Islam/Judism/Hinduism are no no more moral or rational than Christianity. They are essentially the same thing anyway. All based on the same older religions and myths. None of it is original.

Also there's the whole 'what did we ever do to atheists' theme.

Completely forgetting that religions have persecuted non-believers throughout history. Many have died at the hands of religious people for the crime of not agreeing with them. It must feel awful now that we are allowed to, but you will just have to get used to it.

onagar - love the post.