to think that it's just not good enough...

[NoWayNoHow]

I have been on several threads in the Childbirth section recently, and there seem to be many recurring themes...

• "valid concerns dismissed as it was first DC"
• "took DC going into distress for anyone to take me seriously"
• "feel like DR/MW forcing me to have VB after previous traumatic delivery"
• "no longer have any faith hospital being able to care for me during labour"
• "DH/DP had to threaten to sue to get me pain relief"

I know that there are some incredible health car professionals out there, but why is that SO MANY people now have horror stories, not only about the birth, but about how they were treated? In quite a few of the stories I've read (including my own) there is even a direct correlation between the poor treatment of the mother and a resulting traumatic birth (not listening, not examining, etc)

So many women are emotionally scarred for years by what they go through, with some even developing PND.

AIBU to feel that we deserve better than this?

I think it's difficult. On the one hand, you've got a lot of healthcare professionals who are technical experts with the priority of acheiving a live birth result and a healthy mother. They do what they think is best but do it so often that I think they can take a little too much for granted and assume women know or understand more than they actually do. Then you have women in a heightened emotional state, who have not experienced birth before, maybe have unreasonable expectations or simply don't understand what's going on and find the reality comes as a rude shock.

I remember one poor girl when I was in the prenatal unit. About four doctors and nurses patiently explained to her what was going to happen next with the birth of her baby (they knew there were going to be complications), how there would be paeds on stand-by, all kinds of details. They couldn't have been kinder or more informative. After they'd gone she burst into tears.... hadn't understood one single word of it and couldn't remember what they said.

It's a very difficult balance to get right.

i am not sure it really is "so many" people tbh

I think people tend to talk more about bad birth experiences than good ones, especially somewhere like this

that doesn't mean they don't deserve better, of course they do, just i don't think it's as prevalent as it may seem by reading threads on here

I agree with what Chil said but also think that standards have slipped.
I had a horrible birth experience with a lot of mistakes that could have easily been avoided and being treated like a moron because it was my first baby.
At one point I was even told that I wasn't having contractions even though I could feel them and had dilated to 5cm

I've had both experiences in the same hospital. Midwives are shabbily treated and poorly paid - I've seen them have to stand back like handmaidens when the Doctors come crashing in. I had a gorgeous couple of midwives when I had my first child - making me tea, chatting to me, being really friendly.

But the second time I remember clearly throwing up from the pain and one midwife telling me I was 'being silly'. By being sick? And I remember looking at her face and seeing nothing but contempt. It was probably nothing to do with me, but when you're that powerless and vulnerable, it's terrifying.

thisisyesterday, I do think you have a point. I' guess it's like bad customer service - if you have a good experience, you tell two people, but if you have a bad one, you tell ten!!

frizz I think it's lack of consistency that I find so troubling - if you can't even get the same level of care in the same hospital, what hope is there for the rest of us??

I had a similar experience to you with a hugely unsympathetic MW on night duty. After 27 hours of labour and 2 pethadine injections that weren't helping with the pain of the contractins every 60 secs, she told me "you just need to relax"!!!

It was at this point the DH escorted her swiftly out the room and told her would bury the hospital in legal problems if they didn't sort me out!

Also I think as a nation we've lost a lot of respect for "the professions" (e.g. doctor, lawyer, midwfie, teachers, police etc.)

My mother, for example, believes that the sun rises and sets behind the doctor and would believe him 110% if he told her the clouds were made of marshmallows and the sun was a giant bubble. Whereas 20 years ago people took that these professionals knew what they were doing at face value and would not question it, nowadays I think people do question it.

Remember too, that 30 odd years ago, birth was very much more medicalised than it is now so people did have calmer experiences as less was left to chance.

trouble is they have to move so fast and get you in & out,when i was born my mum stayed in for 2 weeks(c-section)vb was a week,now you out within a few hours.
its not just 1st times that dont get listened too,my friend on having her 5th baby was told to stop being stupid and to go too the loo,she didnt want to and told the midwife the baby was coming,midwife got so cross and shouted at her and refused to help until she had gone to the loo,so off she went,baby was born down the loo and spent a week in sbcu becuse her head went under the loo water.

Well I nearly died from negligence during my c-section. I was listened to before it though but then I am quite assertive and also a nurse so I wasn't going to let them muck me about. Unfortunately I could not know that the Registrar was an arse but at least he is no longer a Registrar and he will be getting a lovely letter in the post stating I am suing him for Breach of Duty.

Interestingly when I went in for my first smear after DD the other week I was chatting with the nurse and she asked what kind of birth I had, i said forceps, she responded that it was very, very rare that she came across anyone who had had a 'natural birth'.

Sad really.

I have some doubts and regrets and what-ifs about mine...but all in all it wasn't bad and we were both fine.

I want to add that I have had 2 positive birth experiences in an NHS hospital. Both casaereans (always get confused how to spell) as I don't seem to actually go into labour. I had lovely midwives, very caring, very professional. the surgeon was great and had the same one both times. My scars healed quickly.
However, i didn't have such a great time staying in the hospital after for 3 nights. Found the night staff really quite hostile and not very nice at all. I think a lot might have been agency staff. I had an argument last time with one of them. I thought she was very unnecessarily rude.
If I could have I wouldv'e loved to have had a water birth in the birth centre. My body didn't co-operate though!

i had 3 sections,first 2 were induced but ended up in sections 3rd was planned as i was having twins.

all werent great,1st was forced into having epidrual which didnt work when it ended up in a section and had to be put to sleep.

2nd section went ok was awake but ended up with infection after i was left with a wet dressing for hours.

3rd section went fine but after care was awful and i discharged myself.

I have to say I think first time mothers have it particuarly hard. I know that my first had to have been my worst labour experience (stillbirth aside with second). I mean the actual staff on duty had to be the worst experience I had.

Not sure if it's because once you've had the first, you realise that the professionals don't actually know 'everything' and you are allowed to speak up for yourself.

With my following 6 births (including the stillbirth) the staff were very good, and I had a scary moment with my sixth where I lost a lot of blood and baby was whisked away so they could concentrate on me.

Unfortunately it seems to be hit and miss as to whether you have a good experience and that can't be right. Although I realise every person is different and people just sometimes don't 'gel', it does make it very scary for first time mothers and I don't envy them at all.

I do think we are in a biased position - more people will post about bad experiences. Very few people will start a thread about their positive birth experience.

FWIW, I had a good experience despite having to have a forceps delivery followed by a trip to theatre for massive blood loss. I was very slow to progress so there for three nights. I actually thought the night staff were lovely - I was really pleased to get the wonderful Irish MW back after finally giving birth. I have to say they were all more than willing to help me and made me feel like I wasn't being a complete wuss. The only gripe I had was that no-one went out to tell my dh what was happening whilst I was whipped off to theatre.

When I had DS (1st born after 3.5 days in labour) I went into hospital on advice of community MW (lovely woman who booked me in), and was put on monitor.
DS was an EMCS due to distress and DD was an ELCS because the last CS scarring was still quite weak and there was a good possibility of rupturing.

Considering the hospital was very short of staff, I was well looked after.

I agree that we do tend to hear the horror stories so it can get a bit squewed. But, there are 15 of us in my group of mum friends, and only 2 had good birth experiences. It's not good odds, is it?

The midwife who was with me for the last part of my (horribly long) labour treated me like a silly child who was lying about how much pain I was in. I (and DH) implored her for help as I really could not cope any longer, but she insisted I keep trying. Finally in came the registrar, who said there was no was DS was coming out as he was back-to-back so off to theatre I went.

How dare someone make you feel that way?

Icouddoitbetter that's absolutely shocking, so sorry you went through that.

You are right though - we had friends down over the weekend and he was saying that the official figures they were given were that 1 in 12 women encounter difficulties (be that intervention/EMCS), but that out of 3 women he knows, including his wife, 3 of them had traumatic and even dangerous births.