to consider ringing local police - DS threatened with being thumped walking home

[Clumsymum]

Ds has had long term, low level bullying for years at school (now in year 6), school keep it from being major physical violence, but there are constant little niggles, the odd bruise etc. The boys concerned don't let DS join in with playtime football, and try to interfere when he plays with other children. Playtimes are basically a misery for him

DS isn't a total innocent in all this, I accept. He does have a tendancy to act as unofficial policeman, can't resist "telling tales", and pointing out to a child that they may be doing something wrong, although we have explained to him that this causes bother, and to a certain extent he should just mind his own business.

We have talked to school time and again about these problems, they promise to do something, but nothing ever changes.

However, the bullying is now spilling outside school, and DS won't walk home from school, cos a little gang of 2 or 3 kids have told him they're going to 'get him' after school, a threat which he considers we should take seriously.

I have spoken to the class teacher (who is very understanding of our situation), and said that I really want him to get all the lads together - including DS - and try to get to the bottom of the issues they have. He says he is going to try - we'll see.

But I accept that the school cannot have responsibility for what happens out on the street.

Am I out of order to think about discussing this with our local police - would they just think I'm an over protective Mother?
Do I have to shift everything about so that I can collect DS from school every day?
Or do I throw him to the lions, and hope it is just empty threats (and I know that is quite likely).

I'm just counting the days until end of the year - DS is going out of area for secondary school.

Blimey, this parenting business is hard.

i would.

maybe a chat can be had.
or ask the head her advice?

Me too. Our DD is a dreadful telltale and often feels (unjustifiably) as if she's being picked on by certain individuals. We did have a nasty bullying incident last year and the school were hopeless.
Had we been in England, I wouldn't have hesitated to visit the police.

I would contact the police too - what harm could it do, and it might do some good. Also it shows the school and ds that you won't take things like this lightly.

Hmm, I don't know about asking the Head for her advice, she is pretty hopeless about these matters. I'm a governor, and STILL can't get them to properly implement the anti-bullying policy which we re-wrote 2 years ago.

Which is why the problem rumbles on

Detach your role as a parent from your role as a governor. The class teacher obviously sees this as an issue that the school should get involved in, so push for them to act. Look out the policy and read it, see what applies in your case.
(I hope your school reviews the anti-bullying policy every 2 years and gets it approved by the governing body).

If the school isn't following their policy dig out your complaints procedure (also has to be reviewed every 2 years) and use it.

Sorry but I don't think the police would be of much help here... your 10/11 year old has been threatened with a thump? Whose kid hasn't? And how would you feel if someone called the police on your son because he'd been involved in a scuffle at school?

I would just pick him up every day until the end of the school year, or make sure he walks home with another adult. Hopefully these nasty kids will lose interest. Can you speak to their parents about it?

The school should actually have a named beat officer or PCSO attached to it. Otherwise you can get the name of your local beat officer(s) from your local police website, with contact details, and have a word.

I think it's also important that the school knows that you are doing this, as they need to warn the boys and the boys' parents that This Is Serious. If they're in Year 6 then they will be 10 years old and will have reached the age of criminal responsibility. Just these actions alone may well put the fear of god into the boys and get their families to bollock them monitor their behaviour.

I'd support the school in getting the boys together and talking it through. My son's school (senior) favours this approach as part of a restorative justice model because it works better than the whole punishment cycle apparently.

It is a horrible situation and loads of us have been there or are in the middle of it right now. I am amazed that more parents actually don't involve the police. After all, if someone from the adult world said, "I'm going to get you on the way home from work," you'd call the police wouldn't you?

Could it not be arranged for a policeman or PCSO goes in to the school to talk to the class as a whole about threats and bullying? It does seem a bit extreme to be reporting individual 10 year olds to the police, but a talk like that might make some of them think harder about their behaviour. Sending police round to someone's house is not going to go down well with their parents, especially as while these boys are behaving badly they haven't actually attacked him. A threat froma 10 year old to "thump you" really can't be compared to an adult threatening to lie in wait for you.

But that's the point LineRunner, they're not in the adult world. They are kids testing the water and pushing boundaries. Involving the police could have serious implications for these children. I'm not condoning bullying, I hate it. But I think calling the police would be an overreaction. Just put yourself in their parents' place, they might not even be aware there is a problem. Seriously, I would speak to their parents if possible or insist the school gets everyone together.

And what iambadger said.

I'd talk to Kidscape - charity who do excellent work on bullying. I'm sure they'd be able to give you some advice and some oomph in getting the school to act responsibly.

I know DDs school would consider bullying on the journey to and from school to be their business.
I'd speak to the head teacher again and if she won't agree to speak to the boys, tell her you will be seeking advice from the police. For those saying this will have major repercussions for tge bullies, it really won't. The community officer can speak to them and warn them if the behaviour continues that could have serious consequences.
I really don't think it's fair for a 10 year old to be frightened of walking to and from school.

And re speaking to the parents. Unless you actually know them, I don't think it's a good idea.

Given your second post I'd have no hesitation whatsoever in calling the police. Clearly you know what's expected of the school and are seeing from the inside, not just as DS's mum but in your capacity as governor that something needs doing.

Do I take it that your son isn't the only one being failed by the school?

I speak as the mother of a child who is now at a school especially for severely bullied children. I just wish I'd have come down harder on the school where she suffered the bullying and come down sooner and IME and IMHO I'd recommend going in hard and fast to deal with bullying rather than holding back and watching your child suffer any more.

I guess I'm a bit on the 'better safe than sorry' side of things because my son had the crap beaten out of him by another ten year old a few years ago, and that came after we [stupidly] ignored the warning taunts. My son was very badly hurt. And the other boy ended up in serious trouble, which it would have been good to prevent. Actually it affected his life much more than my son's.

I agree that invoving the police sounds a bit extreme, but that's why I suggested the local school beat bobby, who would be part of a warning system, precisely to stop things escalating.

But maybe my experience is unusual?

Can I just say - I asked about ringing the local police to get some advice or give them a heads-up on attitudes that are happening in school, not intending to report individual boys for threatening behaviour.
Mind you, if they did actually assault ds, I would want them charged.

I certainly wouldn't approach any parent directly about this matter, that way madness lies, and the difficulties may well escalate as a result (I do know that one of the boys issuing threats follows his father's behaviour model!!)

It isn't practical - nor the right thing to do - for DS to be collected from school every day, and it is my intention to make sure that doesn't have to happen, for the sake of other children too.

Thanks edam, I'll ring kidscape...

I've always wondered why behaviour which would be classed as criminal and a matter for the police if those involved were adults, is classed as 'bullying' and dealt with by teachers if those involved are at school.

The age of criminal responsibility is 10. People have threatened your son with assault. What do you think?

Rhinestone That was my point. But Appley's point was that they are just children, and prone to acting out and testing boundaries. (Sorry Appley if I've misquoted you, but I think that was the gist.)

My experience is however that children can and do inflict real damage on other children. And also, why shouldn't we teach them about responsibility and consequences? After all, they will be teenagers and adults soon enough.

Line - Personally, I think children have as much right to be protected from harassment, threats of violence and actual violence as I do! If I was threatened with violence I'd call the police; I wouldn't call someone whose job it is to teach geography!

So sorry about your DS and hope he's doing well now.

I'd tell the school that you'll be phoning the police if there are any more threats and that the boys' parents need to be informed of this. I wouldn't hesitate either to act swiftly if violence is involved. Kids of 10 don't know the boundaries so it might start off being a thump but egged on by each other one might think it ok to use a weapon like a stick or rock or whatever came to hand. Nip it in the bud.

Rhinestone - What I think is that school discipline is generally far far too lax in the 21st century, and if this type of behaviour was properly addressed when it first happened, it would be far less of a problem by secondary schools.

At our school (which has a reputation for being good with children who have special needs), they go out of their way to find "the reasons behind this behaviour". Much is made of any reason which can be found as an excuse, and the children get passed on thru the process, with IEPs, special sessions with a learning mentor etc etc. (all of which has allowed the school to claim extra funding to support that child)

I know all this because we have been down this route ourselves in earlier years, and I've seen the process run in my capacity of governor.

Now that is all well and good with a child who really does have psychological/developmental problems.

But some kids just like to throw their weight about (mine included, until he was put right at home). It's those children who aren't being served by this 'softly, softly' understanding approach. Some children just need the adults around them to make it clear, firmly and unequivocally, that such behaviour is NOT acceptable.
And that is NOT happening in schools, and it's the rest of the school population who suffer.

I completely agree Clumsy and some children need to learn that this is not acceptable, end of, and if you carry on there will be serious consequences.

Unfortunately police won't be remotely interested by threats.

My family suffered threats from a neighbour - mentally challenged I believe - ranging from threatening to have us carried out in boxes, burning fences, children being bullied on way home, being run over on the pavement. I went to the police in desperation, practically in tears and terrified.

They were not interested. Until a crime has been committed, they will not get involved. Crazy I know, I would have thought a word of warning to offenders by police wouldn't have gone amiss, but it seems it doesn't warrant it, no matter what age potential victims are.

It's much like putting in a pedestrian crossing on a stretch of road after a fatality has occured. Crazy. Sorry, I do agree with you. You need someone to turn to, but unfortunately don't waste time with police.

Rhine thanks for the kind message. Much appreciated.

happyinherts that is just not an acceptable reponse from the police (to put it mildly). A complaint to the Professional Standards Department would certainly not be inappropriate. Bloody hell. My local neighbourhood police are really good.

OP does your school not have a local beat bobby who pops in occasionally?