University education is not a right for everyone...

[bananasinpjamas]

University education is not a right for everyone...

But a right for those who are capable, self motivated, committed, passionate enough about the topic they are studying?

'I have a decent idea of how our country is run and also eu etc.' I don't think even the Eurocrats here in Brussels have an idea of how the EU is run, as it is all so labyrinthine, so impressive if they are teaching you that.

What does one do when the study film studies?

It's not a "right".

I've recently forked out thousands of pounds for various training courses and associated qualifications (project-management, Six Sigma etc) but fail to see why any one other than me should pay this?

Why are degrees any different?

One of the most depressing things I saw as a teacher was students who were simply not academic killing themselves to get into a university, only to go through 3 more years of grief because they simply weren't bright enough or, quite frankly, interested enough to go on to higher education. It took a brave tutor to suggest that perhaps the received wisdom that a degree was a "good" thing might not necessarily be the case.

Now I work in HE and regularly come across graduates with, frankly, piss poor communication skills and the sort of written English that would scrape a D at GCSE. How did they manage to graduate? Twice in many cases!

Still, if they are at university, then they are not clogging up the unemployment statisitcs are they.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Our kids are putting themselves into huge debt to gain degrees that no longer put them at any advantage, just allow them to keep up with the herd. Nowadays it seems you need a Masters (more debt!) to stand out from the crowd.

Most entry level jobs do not require degrees, just literate and numerate kids who can think for themselves and have decent IT and social skills.

scary teacher of course it is obtuse and hard to grasp but I am pleased that I know more than most people about it.
Especially when my own mother things that czechoslavakia is still a country...

The differenc being I have never been out of a job since i was 14 (23 now) I took my gap year in a legal firm so I could save and afford to pay my first year up front without loans etc and have worked two jobs throughout my last three years at uni.
I do not expect an amazing job at the end, im just grateful I had the chance to go because I worked damn hard to ensure I could.

It's not just about employability for me (says the philosophy graduate ). Say you have a student of only average ability, but they really want to go and study a non-vocational subject (even the dreaded media studies), and they go and do that enthusiastically for 3 years. Maybe that is worth it for itself, if they have that experience in life. Even if they do then end up doing boring temp jobs such as data entry.

I feel quite differently about the students who don't want to be there and can't be bothered to work, they can just piss off... But if you have someone who's keen and feels they get something out of the course, even if they are not totally brilliant, then maybe it is fair to say they "deserve" that university place.

Everyone must have prizes!!

What makes me :( and at the same time is that this stupid target has devalued continued education, not enhanced it. :(

My friend who is a French lecturer at university often has to correct grammar which our generation was getting right at GCSE level, and my friend who lectures in Engineering has to explain Pythagoras to his 1st year students. Pythagoras! How the fuck can you have got A-levels in Maths and Physics without understanding Pythagoras?! It beggars belief.

i hate this snobbery attitude - the top paid jobs for the 'russel group ' universities will still exist even if the great unwashed can get degrees

Totally agree. And our kids will be the ones to suffer from this.

£25k is still better than the shite most women get paid

hear, hear SEA.

Snobbery means now more people are able to go to university, the middle classes are busy defending their access to the 'good' universities. Although Russell Group membership refers to the quality of research, not teaching (or at least it did, last time I checked).

How about it is the right of a civilized, enlightened, innovative country to extend the education and intellectual capacity of it's most able citizens for the benefit of the country as a whole?