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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that barring children from RELIGIOUS weddings misses the point about what religious weddings are for?

89 replies

Wamster · 16/03/2011 09:17

A couple of disclaimers first:

Not religious myself. Am agnostic verging on atheist.

If the couple marry in a secular ceremony (NOT involving religion), well I don't think they are being unreasonable not to invite children. After all, all they say is the legal bits with perhaps a few personal words in their vows. Fair enough.

But given the fact that most religions are based upon concepts of community, family life, why do people think it OK to bar children from such events when they are a vital part of what a religious wedding is supposed to be about?

Also, is it practically possible to ban children during wedding service (it obviously IS for private party/functions after wedding)? Cannot anybody walk in off the street to witness a church wedding? I've been to a lot of weddings where casual passers-by are at back of church just looking. Or can the Vicar lock the door?
Isn't the fact that everybody (not just guests) can witness vows a vital part of it for most religions, anyway?

OP posts:
plantsitter · 16/03/2011 09:20

I would agree, except that non religious ceremonies last about 20 minutes and a couple of the religious ones I've been to were 2 hours long. So I know which I'd rather take my kids to.

Dancergirl · 16/03/2011 09:20

I am assuming that no-children weddings generally mean no children at the reception due to cost mainly. But I imagine most people wouldn't have a problem with children attending the wedding service. But wouldn't it make it difficult for the guest - what would they do with the children afterwards?

JeelyPiece · 16/03/2011 09:23

Yes you can't ban anyone from attending a marriage service, it has to be open to the public.

Not sure why a religious service is more family-oriented than a civil one though, any religious wedding service I've been to has mostly involved a lot of rambling about Jesus, who definitely wasn't there.

thefurryone · 16/03/2011 09:23

The decision of most people not to invite children to a wedding is usually based on the cost of the reception rather than not wanting them in the church.

JeelyPiece · 16/03/2011 09:24

And not wanting the little buggers darlings tampering with the table centres.

Gottakeepchanging · 16/03/2011 09:24

You cant bar them. C of e weddings are public events. They are celebrations by the family of the church of a transition in the lives of a couple.

At my wedding we had loads of people I didn't know in the church. It was a small village. Everyone comes out for a wedding. Boosts the singing- non church attenders who only turn up for weddings are a nightmare - can't sing (and brides chose such hard hymns) , don't know when to sit or stand etc

GrimmaTheNome · 16/03/2011 09:26

You're right, you don't have to be invited to attend a wedding service. I'd have thought that applied to any wedding, civil or church - surely its a public ceremony, one of the features of which is to allow objections to be raised. Bigamists tend not to invite their first spouse...

Lots of old ladies who'd known me in Sunday school turned up for mine - and if any families had wanted to, that would have been fine too.

Ooopsadaisy · 16/03/2011 09:26

No need for your disclaimers - I'm just going to go straight ahead and agree with your title.

I even went to a "no-child" wedding once where the bride's children were there and there were child bridesmaids.

I didn't have dcs myself back then but I thought it was quite offensive to those guests whose children were not good enough.

I have been invited to a "no-child" wedding since having dcs and didn't even bother rsvping. I just thought "fuck you".

If I ever get hitched (not likely after 22 years of partnerdom) it'll be open house. Bring a bottle and fish and chips!

TrillianAstra · 16/03/2011 09:27

You can't bar them, but you can not invite them.

Gottakeepchanging · 16/03/2011 09:27

The problem comes that people who have not been in a church other than to attend weddings/funerals/ christenings and have no religious belief think they need/ want/have a right to a church wedding as it will look nice on the photos.

I have experienced some wonderful diva brides who think they have bought the church like they have bought the reception. Doesn't work like that. It is a public celebration.

Hammy02 · 16/03/2011 09:30

oopsadaisy, you didn't even reply to the invite? Charming. I assume you lost that friend then?

emily82 · 16/03/2011 09:32

I think it's a sad state of affairs when more and more weddings ban children. In my mind, the wedding should be a celebration of marriage - not just about table centres and chair covers and costs per head. Too much importance and money is placed on one single day. In my mind, it's far more important to have friends and families around to send off the happy couple on their married life. The kind of person who'd tut at having a toddler gabbling on is the kind of person I'd hate to have at my wedding anyhow. Weddings are fun, celebratory affairs and mark the start of yor new life, secular or not. Why ban kids? Just makes me sad and kind of sums up what I think is going wrong with the world. Sometimes people can't see the wood for the trees :(

JeelyPiece · 16/03/2011 09:33

I do hope you're not implying that civil marriage ceremonies are less significant then religious ones.

Our civil marriage service was all about us and the importance of the promises we were making to each other etc and not about an imaginary figure's opinion on the whole thing.

And we are having children... any day now in fact (come on baby).

JeelyPiece · 16/03/2011 09:35

Our wedding was not about children - we would have had children whether we were married or not.

Anyway I think the OP's point is more that it is somehow worse to ban DCs from religious weddings than from civil weddings.

Ooopsadaisy · 16/03/2011 09:35

Hammy - Yeah - I sure did. A few of us did the same. She only really invited us because she wanted the biggest wedding imaginable. She was marrying this bloke with loads of ££££ and had long since decided we were past news. They weren't even paying for the bugger - his parents were!

We didn't hear from her until she needed someone to babysit for her ..... and then she was on the phone to us all ...... oh, the irony! Grin

exoticfruits · 16/03/2011 09:35

I agree emily.
If it is a church they can go-anyone can.(I don't think they do in practice but no one can stop them)

VenetiaLanyon · 16/03/2011 09:39

I am truly shocked by some real Guestzilla comments on MN; some people seem to have a massive sense of entitlement wrt what is "due" to them as guests at a wedding which frankly make Bridezillas pale into comparison

It's just a party to celebrate a legal contract between 2 people. And as far as I recall, people are allowed to throw whatever type of party they like, and invite who they like. No-one has to attend, but the attendees should show at least a common courtesy in replying. And if they guests do attend, they should accept that some couples just might have different ideas about the way the day would go from them, and not get all hot and sweaty about it.

Anyone can get married in a C of E church, whether religious or not, and with a congregation or not; and if it didn't fit with the rest of the wedding for whatever reason, then children do not need to be there. Not everyone is obliged to have the same ideas re church weddings as expressed in the OP...

ScroobiousPip · 16/03/2011 09:47

It's not just C of E marriages that are open events. Marriage in the UK is recognised in law as a public event. If you look at the Marriage Act 1949, both registry office and registered building weddings must be held 'with open doors', ie anyone can attend. Even on 'approved premises' there is a presumption that conditions should be imposed on the licence so that the public can attend.

Receptions are different of course. But, personally, I did whatever I could to make my guests comfortable when I got married - after all, they had chosen to honour me with their presence (including the travel, hotel rooms, new dresses etc they all shelled out for). Inviting their children if that was what they wanted was the least I felt I could do for them in return.

Ooopsadaisy · 16/03/2011 09:47

Actually, interesting point - when they say "no children" - do they mean age 5 or 11 or 16 - 18????

After all, I am someone's child and I'm 42.

Original poster
Wamster · 16/03/2011 09:52

No I'm not implying that they (civil marriages) are less important. Not at all, just there is no religious element present and religions usually have a big thing about community and family life. Obviously, a couple marrying in a register office may very well be community and family orientated but they're not exactly saying that they will be, something that marrying in a church implies.

OP posts:
VenetiaLanyon · 16/03/2011 09:55

Different people have different interpretations, though, Wamster. I don't assume that weddings that I attend in churches mean that the couple are family-oriented; could be that there parents want to see them marry in church, could be convenience,location, cost, venue size, sense of tradition/ culture, somewhere that's aesthetically pleasing, desire to sing hymms etc etc

Original poster
Wamster · 16/03/2011 09:55

I am lost now; why would anybody who wasn't just the teensiest bit religious get married in a church?

VenetiaLanyon are you saying that priests/vicars/rabbis/ whatever will marry a couple of atheists? Confused

Surely if the religious leader knew about the couple's lack of belief he would refuse to conduct the ceremony as it would make a mockery of the whole service?

OP posts:
oneofsuesylvesterscheerios · 16/03/2011 09:59

lol at Guestzilla Grin

Well, I guess the overlying sentiment on this forum, being one for parents and all that is that it would be nicer to have kids come to the wedding.

But ime you don't tend to like kids at weddings that much until you have some of your own and you see how much they enjoy weddings and that they can actually add to a wedding and the reception.

When I get invites stipulating 'no dcs' I just shrug and go enjoying a dc-free party, but my dcs are 5 and 9 and I don't have feeding issues etc.

When we got married (before having dcs) I was very intolerant of other people's children, based it has to be said on the kids in dh's family who were unruly, screechy and annoying, and we made t a child-free do. Our friends with dcs left them at home and enjoyed themselves but I'm sure a few of them were a bit Hmm. Looking back, I'm Hmm at myself too. But wotchagonnado?

Nowadays, I would respect the right of anyone to have exactly the wedding they want, kids or no. Invariably things change when the bride and groom are a few years down the line with dcs themselves, but that's just life isn't it? No biggie.

Fwiw, I love Bridezilla / Guestzilla behaviour, as catalogued regularly on these pages: it's very entertaining.

VenetiaLanyon · 16/03/2011 10:04

Wamster I am not religious at all (agnostic / aetheist same as you) but am contemplating a church wedding. I love the tradition of churches and the solemnity of the occasion and the gravity of the vows; seems so much more real to me than the more prosaic civil ceremony.

I have discussed this with C of E vicars, and have been open about my lack of religion and reasons for wanting to get married in a church, and it is not an issue for them, as long as I attend for a few sessions over a 6 month period (it even says as much on their website FAQ); it is their chance to do a bit of preaching to the unconverted, after all...

Original poster
Wamster · 16/03/2011 10:24

Well, VenetiaLanyon, that just supports my view that C of E vicars are sometimes a wishy-washy lot.

They'll even marry people who are agnostic.
Thus meaning the vows are effectively meaningless and saying them is just all about show.

Goodness, and people think getting wed by an Elvis lookalike in Vegas is shallow.

OP posts: