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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

something a child said to in the playground, more of a WWYD

46 replies

redhappy · 14/03/2011 15:52

Ds attends a nursery setting attached to a school. The ks1 children ahd been on a trip and were having a late play in the playground when I was waiting to drop him off. We have to wait by a gate for a teacher to let us in when the session starts, and some of the children came over to talk to us.

I explained we were waiting for Mrs to come and open the gate, and one boy started talking abut the teacher. I caught the end of it, "she ran away with a black man". He kept repeating this. It was meant as a joke, he is in yr1, but it really threw me.

This was what he was saying to my dcs (who are mixed race). Whilst they are too little to really understand what he was saying, it made me wonder about the future.

My instinct was to mention it discretely to a teacher, but I decided I was overreacting, or at least, there's not anything that could actually be 'done' about it, he's just parroting something he has heard. So I haven't said anything to anyone.

Is there anything that I could have done?

OP posts:

BarbarianMum · 14/03/2011 16:30

WWID - probably nothing.

Cause although I do find it lightly distasteful for the reasons given above, I can't quite think how I/anyone would explain what's wrong with it in terms that would make sense to a young child.

I would evil eye any adult who said it though and if it was used by a teacher/policeman/librarian/nurse (for examples) I would def complain.

chipmonkey · 14/03/2011 17:00

It would be worse again if she ran off with a black milkman.

sixlostmonkeys · 14/03/2011 17:01

Hecate - your arguement re placing the word black/white etc in front of the word man is an arguement I use myself and I totally agree with you.
I hesitate however to apply that arguement to this saying as 1 it is an old saying rather than a start to a conversation and 2 I'm still curious about the origins of the saying. Although decades ago when this saying was used a lot it was never said (in my experience/opinion) in a 'bad' way - we may well find out the origins do however prove to be 'sinister' (which would indeed upset my gran if she was still here)

another one used was run off with a sailor

Original poster

redhappy · 14/03/2011 17:18

I think in terms of what I could actually do, then a discrete chat with the head, so that they are aware and can maybe discuss something in assembly? I don't mean pointing out something wrong, more teaching more positive attitudes to counteract this.

six Sailor's had a terrible reputation as womanisers, 'Woman in every port' etc. So again, this would be v.scandalous

OP posts:

SlainteBooyFeckingHoo · 14/03/2011 17:24

i agree with OP there is a racist element to this saying. years ago tehre was a stigma attatched to a white woman having a relationship with a black man. women could be shunned from their communities and the saying "she's run off with a black man" would bring far more shame on her and her family than if she were to run off with a white man. i have heard the saying being used now in jest as this little boy seems to have picked it up as but nonetheless adding the 'black' part makes the scandal element even more so than it would be if he had said "she's run off with a man"

HecateTheCrone · 14/03/2011 17:30

Ran off with a black milkman

it became a saying because it was such a shocking idea to the people of the day. The thought of a - white - woman running off, not just with a man but with a black man was breathtakingly shocking.

Because he was black.

racist through and through.

but people were, in those days. They didn't even realise that they were. it was normal to have some sort of bad or ignorant attitude towards people who were not white. I'm just pleased times have changed.

Most of these people were not bad people. They just didn't ever think what their words and actions actually were.

pigletmania · 14/03/2011 18:22

Nothing wrong with it imo, he might have overheard someone talking about a situation. My daughter hangs on certain phrases and repeats them sometimes, she does a lot of echolalya. Sounds like this imo. The is nothing wrong with the word 'black', i have African friends who use this to discribe people from African/Carribean countries, equally they refer to pink skin people as white. Nowt wrong.

SlainteBooyFeckingHoo · 14/03/2011 18:36

piglet the history of this phrase is that it was used to shock. the shocking part being that the person someone had 'run off' with was black. this was a scandalous thing based on race. it is racist.

pigletmania · 14/03/2011 18:38

Well either way he must have have heard it from adults talking, and just repeating it. Sound like something my mum would say tbh.

HecateTheCrone · 14/03/2011 18:40

there is a lot wrong with saying that something is particularly shocking or bad because the person is black.

SlainteBooyFeckingHoo · 14/03/2011 18:40

of course he has heard it from adults, i dont think that was what is being questioned here. and your mum is being racist if she says it.

pigletmania · 14/03/2011 18:40

Just thinking of it now yes it is, as it was not just a man she ran off with, but a 'black man' shock. My mum comes out with all sorts of comments like that, I hope that dd does not end up repeating them.

pigletmania · 14/03/2011 18:41

She was suprise on meeting my African friend how nice she was, certainly challenged her stereotypes.

SlainteBooyFeckingHoo · 14/03/2011 18:45

my dad is a racist person. i have made it clear to him in no uncertain terms that he is free to say as he pleases in his own home but that if any of what he says infront of my children is racist/homophobic/sexist etc then he will cost himself the priviledge of seeing his grandchildren in his own house. he would have to visit them in my house where he is not free to be racist/homophobic etc. I'm afraid it isn't enough to hope that your children don't repeat racist sayings if you permit people to be racist around them. if you know someone is racist them you dont allow your child be around to hear their racist garbage being spouted.

pigletmania · 14/03/2011 18:47

Exactly I do put her right. Its funny that because she is from Armenia with dark hair and skin so she is not pure white Anglo Saxon.

SooooCynical · 14/03/2011 18:51

I agree with Slainte and Hecate. Where I come from (oop North)'Your Mum's run off with a black man' has always been used as a term of racist abuse on a par with 'N**r lover'. Certainly never used as a 'joke'.

There was a lot of ignorance around where I lived about black people. There was a Bangladeshi community but they didn't really mix much with the rest of the community (the children even were taught in separate class because they didn't speak English).

I went to uni I met my now partner who is black and when I told my Mum he was coming to visit she went and told all the neighbours in the street 'so they didn't worry'. Not because she's a nasty person but she'd genuinely never met a black person before.

Having said that this child probably isn't aware of the connotations.

Original poster

redhappy · 14/03/2011 19:14

piglet I'm fairly certain it was not echolalia. My ds has autism so I'm well used to it! Also, I volunteer at the school, and I know this boy because I work with his class, I'm confident it wasn't echolalia.

However, that's really the issue anyway. He is in Year 1, so I certainly wouldn't go around calling rascist. I agree he is just repeating things he has heard at home. What makes me sad is to see the innocence of a young child being tainted with rascism.

OP posts:

pigletmania · 14/03/2011 19:49

My dd 4 has speeech and lang dev delay and social communication difficulties and uses a lot of echolalia thats why I thought of it.

Saggyoldclothcatpuss · 14/03/2011 20:00

I blame grandma! Mine taught both of my Dcs to say this. Another one she was proud of was 'mummy hit me with a big stick!' to be used whenever anyone asked them where they got a bumped head/skinned knee/bruise from! Mad old bat!

Original poster

redhappy · 14/03/2011 20:28

My exclamation mark was at understandingwhat it's like to have a child who uses echolalia btw, just reread and sounds like I'm being a bit arsey, which I wasn't .

We were in the supermarket the other day and ds started shouting "shuttup!" over and over again. Plenty of raised eyebrows and judging looks there. I see what you mean about my post sounding like that.

I'm pretty shocked at how many people are saying it must be the grandmother, or that their own grandmother says/said this. My own grandparents are not what you would call educated or liberal but I've never heard it before.

OP posts:

bellaella16 · 14/03/2011 21:08

YANBU. Doesn't matter where he heard it, its unacceptable, the school should be aware of it and act. Lots of hidden, even unconscious racism is said 'as a joke' Doesn't make it any less damaging, maybe more so as anyone who finds it rude or says so then has sense of humour questioned. Already you are questioning yourself. For anyone thinking this type of 'joke' is harmless, where would you draw the line?

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