To think that putting a small 7mo in a forward facing car seat is just bloody stupid.

[bubbleymummy]

Why are people in such a rush to turn their children forward facing? Even the car seat manufacturers say to keep them rearward as long as possible. Is it a difficult thing to understand?

Daisy dares you the scandinavian type seats are designed with more legroom for older children.
Desparatehousewife would you be so unbothered if you put your child forward facing too early and their spine was snapped? Because it is a very real risk! Why on earth be so flippant and devil may care about child safety of all things.
Fair enough if you didn't know the risks, but they've just beeen explained very clearly. I've seen Britax crah tests in real life, it's horrific, even though it's just a dummy.

So DesperateHousewife20, if you don't mind me being nosey, what's your rationale for buying FF after doing your research and reading the www.rearfacing.co.uk/, especially the British Medical Association advice to use RF for children under 4?

It's not a trick question btw - I'm just genuinely trying to understand why you've chosen FF?

I suppose though that with rear facing it is just one seat right form baby to pretty much booster seat stage. With separate ones you buy an infant carrier, then a FF with a 5 point harness, then you probably buy a high backed booster so 3 seats instead of just one. More pennies while still remainng within safety guidelines even if it is not the safest way of doing things.

Im not being flippant about my child's safety. Of course I wouldnt be 'unbothered' if his spine was snapped in an accident, what kind of question is that

Im not getting into a personal debate about car seats anyway, I wanted to just put my point across that ds will be going into a FF seat one hes outgrown his current one, I dont have to explain myself to anyone.

I've always worried about travelling since what happened to the family where the parents and 4kids died .I can't believe my dds been in unsafe carseat for long journeys.That's quite shocking that our kids mean so little to manufacturers.No doubt if they sold them here and parents knew of the risks they would buy rf.

When DS turned 7 months i recieved emails from mamas and papas and mothercare with the headlines "it's time to go up to the next stage car seat"

People take them literally no doubt.

Is this a 'new' thing?

10 years ago, it was just the normal baby carrier type seat, then at 8 months or so into a forward facing one, I'm sure.....

DD had gone into her forward facing at 16 months because she wasn't the weight for it. We considered a rear facing larger seat but she gets horrendously car sick and RF was making it worse. Since FF we have only had 2 incidents in 2 months which is a major improvement.

• wasn't the weight for it before then.

we have one that goes either way and rear facing was a pita to be honest. As DD got bigger it because harder and harder to squeeze her between the seatbelt and the top of the door, you couldn't strap the seat in when she was in it and if she fell asleep in the car you certainly couldn't get her out without waking her because you had to almost turn her upsude down to get her out of the dratted thing. We turned it forward facing when she was 14 months.

'you just cross their legs'!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus! People here are telling everyone rf is the way to go, but not even bothering to make sure dc are COMFORTABLE and the Norwegian seats aside,they are shoving dc in unsuitable seats!!!
If proper seats with proper design for legs ate available, then why the hell don't you buy them???!!

Mine has plenty of space for the legs to dangle - the seat is tilted slightly back and there's a lot of space between theseat back and the carseat.

It's the Britax hi-way. I had to order it from Sweden though.

Have a look at the statistics on the rearfacing press release www.rearfacing.co.uk/documents/rf%20press%20release.pdf

I Love Tiffany - my DD is in a rearfacer (a tall 3.6) and is perfectly comfortable. Children don't sit with their legs extended - the tend to keep them bent (or cross them out of choice) anyway. I can assure you my DD would let me know if she wasn't comfortable on a long journey! She'll probably go forward facing at around 4 like her (extremely tall) sister.
There is also no risk of broken legs from their legs being bent - the way the car seats are designed means that in a crash there would be no force on that part of the body.

That said I think it's only fair to point out that they do not fit well in all cars - they do take up more room and in some smaller cars it's difficult to have two as it means the driver seat has to be too far forward for taller people.

I sent this to my MP and he is going to ask a question about it in Parliament. If everyone on this thread contacted their own MPs and asked them to do the same it could make a difference:

Dear (my MP),

(blah blah blah introduction)

My husband and I had our first baby this time last year and the time is fast coming up to move him into a class 1 car seat. Having researched this purchase with care, I would like to draw to your attention the rather shockng disparity between the official guidelines for the UK and the rest of the EU, particularly the Scandinavian countries. Here, the advice is to move babies into a forward-facing car seat once they weigh 9kg or are 9-12 months old. However, it has been proven that keeping them in rear-facing carseats makes them 5 times safer in the event of a frontal or rear collision and it is normal for children in European countries to stay in rear-facing carseats until they are about 4 years old.

Having looked at the research, I was convinved that I wanted to keep my son safe by buying a rear-facing carseat. However, these are almost impossible to buy in the UK, even though they are made in the UK by UK manufacturers (Britax, Maxi-Cosi...) for export to continental Europe. The few carseats available from specialist independent retailers are priced well above what we can afford.

The risks in even a 20mph frontal or rear collision to a baby or toddler in a forward-facing car seat are truly shocking, including internal decapitation, fatal damage to internal organs and permanently debilitating musco-skelular injuries. It seems awful that the UK's official guidelines are putting tiny children at risk in this way and that British manufacturers are not marketing rear-facing toddler seats here.

More information on the relative safety or forward and rear-facing toddler car seats, as well as information on manufacturers and marketing, is available here:

www.rearfacing.co.uk

Please could you raise this issue in your official capacity as MP for (constituency) and use your influence to effect a change in guidelines and culture that will save toddlers' lives.

Many thanks,

AKMD

DS has just gone into a FF seat as we simply can't afford to buy a RF one that fits our car (I mean, really can't afford). I had to do an emergency stop the first day he was in it and he cried and cried :(

convived? convinced

If it's expensive .I wouldn't be able to afford it either tbh

Sorry to post and run this morning! Back now :)

Great letter akmd!

Thanks for all your posts. Tbh I wasn't even really thinking about a rf v ff stage 1 seat debate.(Although I have my own DS in a besafe at age 2 and he gas plenty of room.) I was just wondering why people turn their babies ff before they've even outgrown their rf seat. My cabriofix was suitable up to 13 kg - most people I know have these seats yet they all turn them forward facing just after 6 months! Why?! My DS was in his until he was about 17/18 months.

RF seats aren't widely available here as there hasn't been the demand for them. Most parents opt for FF as it's generally the accepted thing to do here and the risks are not widely known. RF seats do tend to be more expensive and take up more space.

We were fortunate to find out about RF by chance and to have the money at the time to get one from Sweden just before DS1 outgrew his infant carrier. He's now just over 3 and still happy RF.

The evidence is clear, RF is safer. However, a lot more has to be done to make these seats affordable. As AKMD says, it's all very well knowing the risks, but having the spare cash is another thing entirely.

Stranded - the rf seats are higher up so they can see out the window more than in the stage 0. Also, not meaning to be rude, but how do you know that it's rf that she hates? Maybe she just didn't like being in the car at all - some babies don't! Regardless of what way they are facing. In any case, I would rather they were grumpy than in an unsafe seat.