To not know how to word this?

[ObscureReference]

Ok, I have no idea how to word this correctly, so I apologise from the off if I offend anyone.

It seems to be that casual racism/sweeping generalisations/assumptions are 'ok' or left to stand against some countries, whereas with others, they are jumped all over with the people saying them being called racist etc.

For example, it is ok to say Australians are mad and sweeping generalisations made about their hygiene are made, whereas it would be offensive to say the same about Indians (for eg).

Similarly (dont have time to search for the thread but I know it has been pointed out before) Americans are rude and brash on holidays but it is ok to say that, because they are American. If we said the same about, say, the Chinese being insensitive and chatty at tourist destinations with their cameras, then that would be racist.

I dont know how to word it but I hope someone gets my meaning. just for the record, I dont believe any of the above generalisations, I was using them as an example.

once again, I apologise if I have offended anyone. I just wanted to see if anyone else ad noticed the same.

Also, this is not a thread specifically as a thread, I have had these thoughts for a while, the current thread just highlighted it once again.

YANBU. I get REALLY sick of the 'rude French' assumption, it is utterly endemic. Even Mr Rude in the new Mr Men Show is French FFS! Why is that ok and seen as lighthearted fun, when other countries are 'protected'?

I'm not at all French BTW, but in my ample experience of French people I really don't get why they are supposedly rude.

jojolapin I had never encountered racism until I came to UK. Maybe Ive led a sheltered existence but Ive been quite shocked at the racism where I am

Ok, sorry, I may have worded it wrong after all!! I thought I might have. Thats why I said 'casual' racism. Not racism on a big scale like the stuff that causes oppression etc. But I still think it is not ok to be rude about a country just because they can 'take it. It is still rude!

I wonder if it's because people in Europe/US/Australia are the same RACE as us whereas Asian/African people aren't. Doesn't make sense though... It's still prejudice and is therefore wrong IMO.

I've never heard the "one" about Aussies and hygiene, I thought the criminal "bit" was still going around...

BUt it's the same wherever you got...Germans stealing sun loungers, the French being arrogant and reluctant to shave..the British and their stiff upper lip etc.

Doesn't bother me to be honest-not enough to make a stance.

When I first came here, I got an incredible amount of this casula racism. Awful.

Freudian - that is the type of thing I mean. Perhaps it was my examples that were wrong, sorry!

Not making a stance as such, just pointing out and seeing if anyone else had thought the same.

Sorry RL calls, but will BBL. (just so you dont think I am running away!)

Onlion, I am sorry you have experience racism on a large scale. The only thing I experienced is what is described by the OP.
The French Mr Men really annoyed me though. How could a TV channel be stupid enough to chose to reinforce such an absurd stereotype with the young generation.... I even wrote to them to complain about it (... I know, how British!, see the irony?).

To add to SuchProspects perfectly fine post - the issue of whether it's 'racism' or not depends on the balance of power between two parties.

If you are a member of the more 'powerful' side (ie white usually, but not always) and make comments about another race/culture that is less 'powerful' (either historically or currently) and that disparage that race or culture then it is racism.

Sweeping generalisations about the rude French, the orthodontically-challenged English or whatever ar e harder to define, and I can't really think of how to put it - but it isn't racism :)

It might stray into the realm of racism when someone deliberately discriminates against someone French for example and chooses not to employ them, or excludes them specifically from a group or activity.

Gah, badly worded! Hope it makes sense to someone

I agree with SuchProspects about power and opression. As someone else said, it's also confusing ethnicity and race. An American or Brit could in theory relocate to the other country, and over time become a citizen of that place. So can a chinese person, but they will always be chinese.

Having said that though, I don't think cultural steroetypes of any sort are OK. I wonder if you dig deeper, are the same people saying you can't be racist the same people who mock Americans etc? I suspect for the greater part they aren't.

What HavingAMaybe said

Funnily enough, I do consider my race to be Australian

I do not have a race but a nationality

I get pissed off with the casual comments that many British people make about the French (my ancestry), the Germans and the Americans.

It's not racism though, simply xenophobia and ignorance.

ObscureReference I agree it is often rude regardless of the oppression aspect.

If you had said "Why is it OK to be rude to Australians as a group with sweeping generalizations but not to Indians?" I would probably have said something like "It's not "OK" to be rude to people, but it's not as heinous as being part of a history of oppression that has lowered life chances for whole groups of people."

The mixing of ethnicity and race is a difficult area. I tend to assume, unless they indicate otherwise, that people are talking about the dominant ethnic group of a nation when they talk about Indians or British rather than people who have that particular nationality. Because in my experience that's how it tends to get used in conversation, but it can lead to misunderstanding.

I don't understad why sweeping generalisations aren't considered racist, particularly if they are negative.

Definition of racism :

1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others
2. abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief

I live in France and at one point a group of people at work became totally unbearable. Every single day I got what I consider to be racist comments against England and the English. All were very very negative (eg. all the women are prostitutes because of how we dress, our food is crap, our sports teams are crap, we don't speak other languages etc.) yet I felt that because I am white no-one thought it was racist.

Calling all English women prostitutes in my book is racist.

ok hogsback I think you're right
maybe I'm confusing racism and xenophobia

Whichever, it is highly unpleasant

I was raised in North Africa...and that opinion Fluffy is recognised by everyone BUT the British.

Most North African countries (extending to France-due to colonisation) think that British women are "loose" because they don't dress modestly.

While I don't whole-heartedly agree with that, some women have made me raise my eyebrows when I've been out and about...obviously I don't expect women to don the hijab, but I have never seen so much flesh exhibited in public before moving here.

Back quickly, havent read te replies since I last posted, but just popped in to say:

How about if the word racism is wrong in my OP? Is it more fitting to say stereotypes? Like gender stereotyping, racial stereotyping is just wrong? Is that a better fit for wording?

Yeah but saying that some English women don't dress modestly is very different to saying all English women are prostitutes.

I object to being called a prostitute because of where I was born!

OP How about cultural stereotypes?

And me rude because of Mr Men

agree with OP

its only white people who can be racist apparently, same as only men can be sexist

otherwise its called "cultural" differences dontchaknow

but what the apologists dont or wont realise is by doing that, they are being as racist as the person(s) they are calling