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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have no idea what my childrens' ethnic group is

64 replies

atthecarwash · 10/03/2011 12:22

Just received the census and I'm already stressing abou filling it in.

I'm half french half british.
DH is half english half indian

What are my children?

OP posts:
NotJustKangaskhan · 10/03/2011 14:35

I agree with MillyR - it should be how a person defines themselves, though I can see how this is difficult for kids.

If you want a 'technical' definition, maybe check their red books if you have them handy. I know with mine, they were all labelled as 'White Other' in their books regardless that I said 'White British' (their father is British and they only have British citizenship, I immigrated from the States before they were born).

Original poster
atthecarwash · 10/03/2011 16:36

ploitixmum
very interesting!

OP posts:
ConstantlyCooking · 10/03/2011 18:43

I always get annoyed that there is often no "black british" box as people may now be generations removed from the "original" country and no longer have cultural links with Africa or the Caribbean. Also I am half Black American and there is never a box for that as an option either under black or mixed - just a choice of Carib or Africa - neither of which fit. Must write to Oona King who is a similar mix methinks.
I can't even start to untangle the DCs!

Merley · 10/03/2011 21:54

I found this discussion useful as I also struggle with deciding the ethnic origin of my children.
My mother is originally from Malaysia, and having moved to England in the 1970's now has British citizenship, though her ethnic origin is probably 'Other Asian background': Chinese/Filipino/Portuguese(her mother was Chinese, her dad Fil/Port). My dad, who is English, met and married her in Malaysia, and I was born there before we moved here when I was 2. I have always described my ethnicity as 'Any other mixed' as there never seemed to be a White and Chinese mix, only White and Asian mix. However this year's census has different categories- Chinese now comes under Asian, so I guess I should now put 'Mixed White and Asian'!. Back to the children. Although they look very much White as the Chinese is becoming more diluted, they do have a Chinese (mix) grandmother. I know it's not that important, but I want to get it right, as one day they'll have to categorise themselves. I feel like just putting White British but now wonder if I should put down 'White and Asian' or 'any other mixed' but where does it end- what about their children?!

Politixmum · 13/03/2011 08:19

Nailak your friend ticking Pakistani means that in the area where she lives, the statisticians can look and say how many British Pakistani women live in that area, whether they are in jobs or not, how well educated they are, so whether there might be a case for them providing the job centre with an Asian women's worker to support Pakistani women who are looking for work, or the local college might consider whether they can provide some adult ed aimed at the Pakistani community which would help local women raise their skills.

'Other' is not a category, however if enough of us tick it, then the powers that be might look into it a bit more closely to find out if they should develop a more sensitive way of measuring ethnicity.

Politixmum · 13/03/2011 08:23

atthecarwash - glad you found this interesting! I know myself how tricky it is sometimes to find a box you fit in - it sort of helps to realise the boxes are a very clumsy way of measuring people, yet we do need this information to understand better the lives of different groups of people in Britain so we can see if they need any resources in their local area.

scattermummy · 13/03/2011 10:44

How about hybrid!that's what I put on forms sometimes,or rasta.hehehe. I get fed up of being OTHER

diabolo · 13/03/2011 10:46

Human.

BulletWithAName · 13/03/2011 10:47

No YADNBU. My DC are 3/16ths black, so I was totally confused about what to put. I put mixed race in the end. Confused

Original poster
atthecarwash · 13/03/2011 10:49

politixmum.....thanks for coming back, I'm still not 100% about it all.

My kids have an asian surname because my husband is half asian. So I assume they are 'white british and asian'...the white being british and european.

What I struggle with is the fact that they don't look asian at all and we don't have any asian traditions or connections. What I'm trying to say is that there's been a lot of talk about the ethnic group you feel you belong to. Well, my kids are english kids really, with european influence on my part but no asian influence at all, as my husband was raised in a very english way.

I thought this ethnic group thing was based on fact, where you come from not how you feel or what group you feel you belong to....help!

OP posts:
LaWeasel · 13/03/2011 10:51

It's a big misconception that white is all one big race. It's not at all, you can be several different types of white!

which just proves what a crock of shit race based questions are.

I put white other for me and dd (we have dual nationality) and dh is happy with just white for him.

Ben10isthespawnofthedevil · 13/03/2011 10:56

Atthecarwash

I am quarter Japanese so the same amount as your children and I class myself as white. I was raised with no Japanese background and my dad changed his name from his Japanese name to a German name when his mum remarried when he was a child. I have no signs of being Japanese apart from very big eyes. Unfortunately my brother got the lovely dark skin and hair!

My dad classes himself as white/asian (or probably Japanese/ American knowing him!!)

How old are your children? Are they old enough to classify themselves?

miso · 13/03/2011 12:08

My Health Visitor always ticked the 'white' box for my kids I guess since they looked white to her, even though I am clearly mixed race. (Wondering now if I looked 'white' to her as well though!)

To be fair, I think the form wasn't to do with inherited health issues, but just the bog-standard council bit.

miso · 13/03/2011 12:25

Politix mum, your answer was quite enlightening - plus explains why different local authorities have different breakdowns on their forms - what is useful to know in one city may be statistically insignificant in another.

With respect to the forms measuring (possible) discrimination in job application, I've always thought it would make as much sense for the interviewer to write down what ethnic group they thought the applicant belonged to - but I can see that would never work!

Original poster
atthecarwash · 13/03/2011 20:49

BEN10...how interesting that you view yourself as white. My kids, as you correctly say are the same asian as you are japanese so maybe they see themselves as white too.

They are all under 10 so too young really. They are very proud of their indian surname and we speak of taking them there at some point. So it's hard to say how they view themselves. They just don't look asian at all, (which is a shame!)so I do wonder how they see themselves. I think I'll stick to white and asian and let them decide for themselves when they've grown up. But I will show my 10 year old the form and ask him what he thinks he is.....I might be surprised by his answer

OP posts:
working9while5 · 13/03/2011 21:02

I haven't decided.

Dh and I are both Irish. Ds born here. I want to write British but I can't see him as British, even though I have no desire for him to feel non-British.

We went to a Paddy's Day parade here and my eyes filled up at the little boys in Dublin jerseys with English accents. It makes me feel homesick, though I have no basis for feeling that my boy is not at home here. We positively want to stay here.. but I can't quite imagine him with an accent that's different to ours yet, so in my head, he is Irish.

bonkers20 · 13/03/2011 21:03

My kids are 1/4 Indian and 3/4 white and I put mixed white/Asian on these forms (which is what I put for myself as well 1/2 Indian 1/2 White). n.b. I haven't read the census form yet (doesn't it say complete it on or after the 27th March....oh I guess the ethnicity of my family won't change before then....OK, I get it!)

Asian Indians are caucasian, so someone who is mixed Asian Indian and British is caucasian but not white caucasian.

I like making a reference to my asian side because I am white skinned but my ethnicity is important to me.

Ben10isthespawnofthedevil · 13/03/2011 21:25

I'm now thinking I'm wrong and I don't see myself as white actually Confused. If you were to ask me face to face I always always say I am 1/4 Japanese, 1/4 American, 1/4 Czech and 1/4 Russian but that is a nationality thing. My heritage is important to me and I now think I have classified my ethnic group wrong all my life on official documents Confused

bringinghomethebacon · 13/03/2011 22:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
atthecarwash · 14/03/2011 14:40

well, I asked my 10 year old this morning, and the first thing he said is 'what's an ethninic group?'....how sweet! Children are just not interested in classifying themselves!

Ayway, I explained and then went through the form with him. BTW, it's out of interest rather than being obsessed with this census thing!

Well, he actually surprised me. He says he's 'sort of white but a bit indian too, but really I would say I'm white because that's what I look like'.

And there I have it. I guess it's a bit like what Ben10 and bringinghomethe feel.Although Ben10...sounds like you're going through an identity crisis;)

I wonder if he was darker he'd feel more indian.Goes to show that most of probably feel we belong to a certain group mainly because of how we look rather than our genetics.

OP posts:
Ben10isthespawnofthedevil · 14/03/2011 15:10

I have been thinking about this. I didn't know my Japanese granddad as he lived in the US while we were in England. Therefore we had absolutely no Japanese input into our upbringing. I know nothing at all about Japan and Japanese life and that is very sad.

However my Czech grandmother was Jewish and escaped the Nazis on the last train from Prague. We are not practising Jews but I feel a huge pull towards Judaism even though I am not a believer. I know a lot more about her life and background.

We are all a hotchpotch of our ancestors and I think we all need to decide how we classify ourselves and everyone will do that based on their own emotions and beliefs.

Original poster
atthecarwash · 14/03/2011 20:50

Ben10...unlike you, my kids know their indian grandad very well and they love spending time with him and eating his curries :) But what struck me as interesting is that my 10 year old described himself as white because that is what he sees when he looks in the mirror. I do think that as he gets older he'll realise that what we are is more than just what we look like. I'm hoping he'll include asian in his ethnic background he is 25% indian.

You seem to be more in tune with your grandmother's background because you spent time with her. Goes to show that no matter what our roots are, it's the actual physical influence that matters

OP posts:
Ben10isthespawnofthedevil · 15/03/2011 07:39

atthecarwash

Your DC are very lucky to have the exposure to their grandfather and I'm sure that as they get older they will come to feel more links with that part of their ethnicity.

I am still wondering whether I have filled in my census wrong! What is even crazier is that I hesitated more on whether my husband should be Irish as all 4 of his grandparents were born in Ireland, than whether I should be mixed ethnicity! Confused

cory · 15/03/2011 07:51

We have the same problem with language every time we have to fill in a form: school records, hospital records etc all insist that you have to have a first language. My children don't.

cory · 15/03/2011 07:53

If the census ethnic box ticking is about medical issues why are there different boxes for White British and Other White? Do the Brits have diseases that the rest of us don't? And if it's about medical issues, why should it matter what ethnicity you feel you are: do the bugs and blood disorders pay attention to your feelings?