To be slightly outraged that they don't include Scottish qualifications on the census form?

[hockeyforjockeys]

OK I'm quite sad and love a good form to fill (especially if it has lots of lovely tick boxes), so I was quite excited to receive my census form today. But when I looked at the qualifications section there was no mention of Scottish qualifications (e.g. Standard Grades and Highers) in the list of possible options, when they explicity say UK qualifications at the top of the form. Even though I live in England I have Scottish qualifications, and find it enough of a bloody nightmare at the lack of recognition of them (particularly when I was applying for uni), but I would of thought a national body like the National Statistics Office might have an idea that things are a bit different up there? Is it a different form in Scotland, otherwise I can imagine a united chorus of 5 million of 'bloddy English'.

A1980 - have you actually read the thread??

I am ENGLISH - I live in ENGLAND - I have Scottish school qualifications. Many of my peers at school who did Scottish exams are also English living in England. (I do get free prescriptions though as I'm on benefits )

Jealous of Scots? I think not. My mothers a Scot and I feel sorry for her just for that.

But honestly a fucking form.... Have you nothing else to worry you.

Surely if they want a proper view of the country they need to make sure that everyone can answers the questions properly??

It's like the Welsh form has a "can you speak Welsh" qustion on it...........obviously they think that's important enough to add to the form...........yet there are many Welsh speakers living in England......surely they should also count???

1980,quite a wee hissy fit.and B-R-E-A-T-H-E. yes scotland has its own parliament and we voted for all the benefits you mention.not some wee jolly extorted from the english

"My mothers a Scot and I feel sorry for her just for that"

LOL thats a stoater,your poor wee mammie the ignimony of it all.damned at birth

Here's a random, fairly radical thought. Why not a standard UK census form that covers everyone, wherever they were born, studied and currently reside?

gaelic - you know I wondered that - why couldn't they do the same form for everyone??? Surely that makes more sense.

Then the Welshman(woman) in Scotland can say "yes I speak Welsh", the Scot living in England can say they've got "CSYS'/Highers" (as can the English person educated in Scotland living in England) and they'd actually see properly what the whole country looked like.

Far be it for me to criticise the citizens of the country where I live, but I suspect the Scots would complain. This is being promoted as "Scotland's census" up here. It's "Scotland's" everything, whether it is UK wide as not. Pees me right off.

well it's not much of a fecking "Scottish" census if the rest of the Scots that happened to have moved across the border can't actually properly answer the questions

As a matter of fact, more government money IS spent on average per person in Scotland than in England - but not as much as in Northern Ireland for instance. And the variance between different counties with the Home Nations is greater than that between them.

As London provides 8% of UK GDP with 2% of the population you COULD argue that actually London is subbing the whole of NotLondon.

(I suspect though, in a spirit of full disclosure, that a false definition of London that actually includes large areas of NotLondon with the M25 is being used)

A1980: I get none of the things you list because, although I am a scot, I live in England. You could get them if you wanted; you just have to move to Scotland.

The form matters because it further reinforces that the english system is to be taken as the uk norm. If you aren't English, you are abnormal.

I agree that there should have been one form for the whole uk, which should include questions about welsh and Gaelic for everyone. It's a uk census; it's stupid for Scotland to have it's own form. There is absolutely no need to re-brand it as 'scotland's census' and to produce a separate form as if Scotland is somehow not part of the uk.

So when I fill it in I should put 6 A A levels, even if I haven't actually got any, as it's the nearest equivalent to old Highers? Is that fraud, as I presume you're not supposed to write stuff that's not true. Shame they wouldn't let me do that on my UCCA form.

You don't have to put a number, you just tick the box that says what general types of qualifications you have. Highers are the equivalent of A levels for this, as they are the qualifications you need to get into university, whereas O grades, standard grades, GCSEs etc are the first set of national qualifications you do, but are not university entry level qualifications. The categories are only meant to be that broad, not like your CV!

The categories are slightly more complex than than, as they want to know if you have 0-4 gcses, 5+ a-c gcses/1a level, 2-3 a levels/4+ as levels, etc. You shouldn't have to convert your qualifications into English equivalents. That's only going to cause confusion.

Someone with 3 highers, for example, has to determine for themselves whether they should tick all 3 boxes or just the first 2.

O Grade, Standard Grade, Access 3 Cluster, Intermediate 1 or 2, GCSE, CSE, Senior Certificate or equivalent.

SCE Higher Grade, Higher, Advanced Higher, CSYS, A Level, AS Level, Advanced Senior certificate or equivalent

GSVQ Foundation or Intermediate, SVQ level 1 or 2, SCOTVEC Module, City & Guilds Craft or equivalent

GSVQ Advanced, SVQ level 3, ONC, OND, SCOTVEC National Diploma, City & Guilds Advanced Craft or equivalent

HNC, HND, SVQ level 4 or equivalent

Degree, Postrgraduate qualifications, Masters, PhD, SVQ level 5 or equivalent

Professional qualifications (for example teaching, nursing, accountancy)

Other school qualifications not already mentioned (including foreign qualifications)

Other post-school but pre-Higher Education qualifications not already mentioned (including foreign qualifications)

Other Higher Education qualifications not already mentioned (including foreign qualifications)

No qualifications

So - they lump stuff together that isn't exactly the same - like degree and PhD, Highers and A levels, just to fit people into categories -
only got first lot of qualifications
got qualifications that might let them go on to higher education
got college-type qualifications
got university-type qualifications
got professional qualifications

X-posts there - ours is much simpler! I was assuming the question would have been the same but without the Scottish qualifications listed, not so completely different..... I certainly wouldn't tick 4+ A levels when I have 5 highers and 3 CSYS, so it doesn't translate at all....

But I was offered a University place based on the

1 A level/2-3 AS levels bit.......

If we're saying that Highers are equivalent to AS's........

Is an AS 1/2 an A level? Or more?

The English form is slightly different, AMum, though. So the available options mean that individuals have to decide whether their highers are equivalent to A levels or AS levels. If someone decides that their highers are equivalent to AS levels, then someone with 3 shouldn't tick the box for 2-3 A levels/4+ AS levels; if they think they are equivalent to A levels, they should tick that box.

Leaving decisions like this up to individuals is dreadful methodologically, apart from anything else.

I'll be in this position too.

I live in England, but have Scottish O'grades, 4 Scottish Highers, and 2 CSYS.

I don't even have the form yet, and I am confused.

Cross posts again.

It's 2-3 A levels / 4* AS levels, so with 5 highers and 3 CSYS, you should tick the box. The confusion comes for someone who has 2-3 highers, who is required to know and understand how their own qualifications match up to the English system.

An AS level is the first year of an A level. In that sense, AS levels are equivalent to highers, and CSYS/Advanced highers to A level. However, you don't tend to get into uni with only AS levels, whereas you can get in with highers. The two systems are not entirely comparable.

It's stupid to expect people to do it themselves. As I said, poor methodologically.

"However, you don't tend to get into uni with only AS levels, whereas you can get in with highers. "

You see that's where it doesn't make sense as AMIS said on the form (in England at least) they are bunched kind of similar to how she said, so your basic GSCE/Standard Grades, a couple of post Standard Grade/GSCE (obviously standard grade isn't on our form but ykwim) but not enough to get into University, and then the box for that which would be enough to get in.

Whereas an English University (Russel Group if it makes a difference) offered me an conditional place with 4 highers (which I guess is equiivalent to 2 A levels) that I already had, and only one more Higher to pass to get the place.........so 2 1/2 A Levels.

Twist - why can't for a NATIONAL census they just do one bloody form!

I guess the trouble is that Scotland has always had its own separate census, looked after by a Scottish agency, so to merge ours with the English one would be seen as a loss of independence. But I agree its daft to have two separate sets of questions, when people move between the different coutries so freely. It was probably different in 1830 though...

Twist????? WTF - I have no idea what twist is supposed to mean in my last post

AMIS - oooo I don't know - it's all pretty much the same now as in 1830 isn't it...........

IME there is nothing Scotland likes doing more than reinventing the wheel, but slightly subcircular with the odd corner.

I'm still trying to work out my "twist".........