To be strict about stars on reward chart?

[pjmama]

DH and I have a differing opinion on something and I'm in need of some other views as I may well be in the wrong.

DS is 4.5 and has never been a great sleeper and he still wakes us up nearly every night. There doesn't seem to be any reason for it other than habit, he wakes and he shouts for us an has done this from being about 2. He'll go through phases sometimes of a couple of weeks or so when he'll sleep really well, then he goes back to night waking again. He's never distressed unless he's had a bad dream which is rare, he just wants 'tucking in' again.

We have a reward chart for him and he knows that if he can go all night without waking us up, he will get a star (and a treat when he gets 7 stars). He understands that if he wakes in the night (assuming he hasn't had a bad dream of course) we'd like him to try to snuggle down and go back to sleep instead of shouting out and waking us up. When he does it we make a big deal of it, so it does seem to be having some limited success if sporadically.

This is the disagreement! When he wakes up in the night saying he needs a wee, DH is all for still letting him have a star because he can't help needing the loo. I however don't think we should.

While I obviously accept that if he needs to wee then he can't help that, he also isn't daft and I suspect that he's starting to automatically say he needs the toilet when he doesn't because he thinks that will still get him a star. He's been dry all night for a very long time now and isn't drinking any more fluid than usual, so I don't see why he has suddenly started needing to wee in the early hours every night unless he's trying it on a bit.

Part of me feels mean and DH certainly thinks I am, but I think that we should be clear that a star is only for a full night's sleep, which is something we all desperately need! If we make an exception for toilet trips, doesn't that make it totally ineffective and we may as well not bother? We've run out of other ideas for ways to get him to sleep through and so I'd really like to stick with the chart as it does seem to be working sometimes. He goes to bed most nights saying he promises to try not to wake us because he really wants a star, but then at 2am he's sat up shouting again.

Maybe I'm just too tired to think straight!

Why does he need you or your DP to take him to the toilet? Is it downstairs?

Hmmm, maybe a compromise would work. If he gets up and actually does wee (more than just a tiny bit, an amount that means he DID need the loo), then he gets a star. If he is using it as a cover then no star.

I agree with Runs - if he's doing a decent wee, instead of squeezing something out, then that really can't be helped (at least he's not wetting the bed which COULD happen if he's desperate to get his stars).

Also agree with Runs

I agree with Runs too..I just can't stop laughing at the irony of her nickname

I'm also wondering why he needs an adult to take him to the loo? Can't you just leave hallway and bathroom lights on so he can go by himself?

Put a potty in his room if there is a danger with stairs and the dark.

He could take himself to the toilet, but for some reason he just won't do it. I might try the potty in the room idea, certainly worth a go.

When he gets up, he does have a wee although not a massive one. I don't think it's actually a full bladder that's waking him, more that once he's awake he might as well go to the toilet iyswim?

No idea why he wakes, there's no pattern to it and he's generally a very well balanced, happy little boy. As I said I think it's just a habit, I guess some kids sleep better than others? He has a twin who does 12 hours straight every night, so I'm fairly sure it's nothing we've done - just down to personality! That's why I'm using the chart to try and get him to think and make a choice when he wakes up, not sure if that's a realistic goal or not? I'm just fed up of being woken up every night for the last 5 years!

slightly left field here, but my 4.5 year old ds was reliably dry at night for several months and then started wetting the bed A LOT. He still never wakes up in the night asking for a wee, but he still wets it about once a fortnight. I have no idea why.

I would try to have seperate charts for 1) not waking you up and 2) toilet training. That way, you make it quite clear that they are completely separate things. So if he gets up and goes to the toilet on this own he gets two stars. Maybe?

The stars should be for not waking you up (the goal) unless there is an emergency before 7am the next day. So, if he goes to bed and plays quietly, or gets up in the night and goes to do a wee/uses potty, then that's fine. You should reward the desired behaviour and after five years, you deserve a good night's sleep!

I think you're right - he should only get a star if he doesn't wake you up at all. Not giving a star is not a punishment - it's just not getting the reward. If you want the end result to be unbroken sleep then stick to your guns over this. Kids are very smart!

beware of piss on the bedroom floor with a potty in the bedroom. but I think if you want to go with the positive reinforcement, how about a separate star chart for going to the bog solo?

waking up for a wee in the night was one of DDs first signs of dairy intolerance, and one of the first things we were told to do was cut out milk in the late afternoon

worth a try?

but for your actual question,YABU, i would worry that DS will prevent himself going and either wet the bed or end up with a UTI if you make a big thing about him in effect being punished for needing a wee in the night

I like the 2 star idea. It's encouraging him to use the loo on his own rather than making night time wees seem like a bad thing.

Make a new chart with him with say, 10 levels on it to encourage him to want the extra stars towards his treat?

Yes, I'm liking the 2 star idea too.

Thanks very much for all your comments, very helpful!