to think that in many ways, woman of our generation have it alot easier?

[carriedababi]

compared to previous generations

both woah and sahm is on the whole, seen as a vaild choice either way

unlike it was in the 50's or 80"s, when you were proibably either expected to stay at home, in the 50's or go to work in the 80's

clothes and toys are alot cheaper

we can resell things easily on ebay etc

Another vote for different. Certainly housework is a lot easier, but there are other pressures these days.

In our grandparents' days there wasn't all this clean clothes every day and all that though, and the shopping that I we do.

Remembering friends' houses in the 80s, I think shabby furnishings were acceptable then, and scruffy hand-me-downs too. Children played outdoors from dawn till dusk, and older siblings/cousins looked after younger.

We certainly have more appliances, but lots more to clean, and the standard keeps rising. IIRC we spend more time than ever on housework now. Also agree with the MIL who mentioned fancy food not being expected then - chops and two veg, or fish and two veg take very little time to prepare.

The big difference is accomodation costs - that puts huge pressure on young families, makes two wages necessary, and means that a lot of us can't afford to live near extended family and friends.

"Life is harder for us now because we have to have the "right" pushchair and a lovely home? Oh please!If it is harder now it's because we've become such complaining greedy people!

I don't think any of you would swap with a 1950s housewife if you could. SO much more choice now, many more opportunities, access to education, services, consumer lifestyles that women couldn't even dream of! And we are allowed to express our opinions!"

MarianneM ... I would agree that there are more options open to women today (in terms of careers, relationships, lifestyle and education) but that does not necessarily equate to 'having it easier'

For instance, 'we' have gadgets like washing machines...but reading some of the threads on MN how many MEN actually operate them? Or the tumble drier, or equally share childcare?

'We' (and this inference galls me) have all sorts of labour saving devices....but 'we' are still expected to operate them!!

And in addition to that 'we' are expected to have successful careers etc etc etc.

Life is, has and will always be very hard for women IMHO. No generation has had it 'easier' than any other, it's all swings and roundabouts and I would argue that even now we are still all 'bound' by basic misogyny. Despite having fecking tumble driers.

Don't forget you can be isolated within the family. Most women who lived in extended families lived with the ILs and sometimes were treated very badly but they couldn't stand up for theirselves (in some countries this still is the case).
Also most laws - i.e. divorce low- was unfair towards women.

I'm happy living in this era. Own bank account and property, healthcare, fair law, freedom, w/m, d/w.....

foreverondiet, your background sounds very different than mine (working class), your grandma was doctor and had nannies and cleaners but did she have access to her money and freedom? I wonder if class made difference or not....

honestly - working class women have always worked since the dawn of time - or at least enclosure and organised farming

Middle class and upper class women did not - to a middle class man his wife not working was a sign of status

working class ordinary women worked in the 1900's, 1950's and 1980's - still do - the change has been in women have the choice to escape the 'guilded cage' and maybe the expectation that we share things as equals

I agree generally - esp compared with eg the 19th century. How all those working class women had ten children and did all that heavy work I don't know.

Though I do think my mother's generation had some things easier - i.e. the one-income household. Our lives are so fraught at the moment with working, managing a toddler and being pregnant. My mother had a much quieter time (but less independent, of course).

It is a lot easier in many ways but we still have a long way to go in terms of equality.

The home stuff is easier of course with all the equipment we have now (cleaning products, electronic products and the internet for shopping/ bills etc) it takes virtually no time whatsoever to 'keep' a house.

We also have freedom to do more independantly. My grandma nearly keeled over and died yesterday when i told her my partner and I were going on a city break next weekend wthout the kids

Then there are benefits. Only 30 or so years ago if you lost your job or left your husband or your house burnt down, you were screwed. At least now we get something not that the system is without it's faluts.

We also have better opportunities whatever class we are from. I was born on a council estate and didnt go to college, but I now earn a very good wage and eat in nice restaurants, go on holidays, see any new film I fancy that comes out in the cinema. It's a humble living by some standards but my parents generation just didn't get to do those things. I eel quite fortunate compared to women of 20/30 years ago and more.

In large families, older children were expected to do much of the work.

We are lucky to have access to reliable contraception - but I understood that the rhythm method has been practiced for centuries at least, and it is surprisingly effective.

alistron1

I agree that men and women of today are far from equal. However I think things have moved on A LOT since the 1950s.

Why do many many women's husbands do nothing around the house? Why do women allow this? I don't get this argument at all - do you not share and negotiate with your husbands?

I would certainly not have married a man who expected me to do everything around the house while he sits on his arse. So my DH does operate the washing machine (no tumble drier :) ), he cooks, washes dishes and is putting our (tantrumming) DD to bed as I write. He will also stay at home for a year from Sept to look after our two DDs while I work before retraining for a new career.

And nobody is expecting you to have a successful career! I have managed to build a perfectly nice life around an admin career, and my salary alone will support our family for the next year. And I don't think my life is hard, not at all, I am grateful that I have all these choices in my life.

It's all about choices, and yes, women of today have many choices!

Physically - we have it easier i think.

Mentally - we have it so much harder!

I think that sadly for many women the quality of their lives and the choices they can exercise still depend on whether or not they hook up with an asshole when they have kids.

That's why I don't think life for women now is necessarily 'easier' than at any other time.

And that's without factoring in all the low level cultural misogyny that we face.

Wanted to add that I definitely do not think that the feminist battle has been won and that women are equal to men in every way today. Of course there is a lot sexism, unequal opportunities, unequal pay and so on.

BUT the way to go is not to sit and moan about how your husband doesn't help around the house and why women have it so hard - why don't you do something about it? The difference between today's and yesterday's world is that you CAN do something about it! You can educate your children about equality between men and women. You can expect to share chores with your husband. You even have a choice whether to have a husband at all. You can campaign for women's rights. But of course it is always easier to just complain.

And that's without factoring in all the low level cultural misogyny that we face.

Completely agree with this!

I'm 'lucky', my partner shares the load equally with me. But I see so many women (IRL and online) whose lives are limited by the men they are with. And I don't know how that will ever change.

I think some of you look back with rose tinted glasses. What was better before?
Not having a bank account? Not having contraception? Suffering dv and marital rape? Not taking decisions about yourself and your dcs? Living in fear of stigmas and taboos? Suffering in silence?

And what if a woman back then was unmarried and pregnant? Or poor and disabled? Widow or left by her husband?

MarianneM -"I'm alright Jack" few people today have the choices you do on a single admin salary. It probably does depend on the salary and whether you were lucky enough to buy before house prices trebled or get to the top of the list for council housing.

I do agree with alistron1 but I think that today, at least, there is usually choice around dumping the arsehole, and getting some level of protection from an abusive ex. That wasn't always the case.

my mum had a pretty tough time with four kids, no central heating, no double glazing, no second car, twin-tub washing machine, terry nappies, husband that didn't know one end of a mop/child/can opener from the other...

i get time to MN. what more do i have to say?

Yes, we have it better. But there is still a long way to go until we have it as good as men.

and if she complained about e.g money being tight, she always got told she should get a job...

like term time 9-2.30 only jobs were easy to come by!

I don't think you can generalise though, because it depends on your family.

I was born in the early 1960s. We had a good-sized house in a nice area. My mum ran playgroups for pocket money because they could live on my dad's wage (doing the exact same job I am doing now). We had a car and a telephone and we went on holiday every year, unlike a lot of my friends.

I walked to school on my own from 7 years old. My parents involvement in school was turning up to parents evening once a year. I took myself off to Brownies and dancing- I was expected to get the bus from about 10 yo. We didn't ever get taken/ picked up. The car stayed in the garage except for weekends. In the school holidays we took ourselves off and didn't bother mum.

In contrast, I have to work FT. The house we have is smaller than my parents', and not in such a nice area. We are responsible for choosing a school and are expected to be actively involved in school and in homework. We took our kids to school until they left at 18. If they go to clubs or activities we have to take them and pick them up. In the holidays they have to be looked after and provided with things to do.

As for bank accounts etc, my parents had a joint bank account when I was young and I had one once I was 16.

The rest of you are probably a different generation to me anyway

Also the internet provides lots information to every woman

I'm another one whose older relatives think we have it tough today. They tell me they just weren't under pressure in the way we are. I know there were difficulties, but am not convinced they were as constant. Housework was hard, but was at least not stressful. Children were more independent.

My mum thinks young mothers these days have it harder than in her days with young children. And we were skint when we were kids!

She says she used to worry about money (family lived on my Dad's low salary), but apart from that had few worries. Certainly never worried about things like 'quality time' with children, which school was best, whether children were going to get runover/kidnapped/molested.