To assume someone using phrase 'of the --- persuasion' is being racist?

[alsmutko]

Or anti-Semitic in this case, as the person was described as 'a gentleman of the Israeli persuasion', i.e. an Orthodox Jew.

The comment was in a letter to a newsletter I get - in which said gentleman apparently told another (a friend of the letter-writer) not to eat the 'full English breakfast' (on a train, i.e. a public area) as it offended his faith.

I'm a bit doubtful about the anecdote in any case; surely the dietry laws apply to Jews but not to Gentiles? Unless said Gentile was walking into a synagogue or kosher home eating a bacon butty it won't offend the faith? It might disgust an observant Jew if he was sitting next to someone eating bacon, but that would apply to some vegans I know! Surely he'd just change seats?

So, is this story anti-Semitic or a genuine tale about the religious trying to inflict their religion on an unwilling other person?
And is the phrase 'of the --- persuasion a little bit racist?

And can someone tell me where I can get a full English breakfast on a train please?

Yum.

Fucking hell - how badly written was that first paragraph - the IRONY.

This is what I meant to say:

You can still tell the story without describing the man but instead describing his religion. That is a solution if the narrator is doubtful about the 'right on' use of language to describe race / faith. (Given that they've made up shared this tale, I doubt that would be a concern though).

First class, tethersend. Not something I know much about though.

Anyway, thanks all. I did wonder about this story and now I'm convinced it's bollocks.

Time for lunch!

Bacon buttie?

Matzo balls and gefilte fish all round!

to simply say 'anyone using this sentence construction is peddling prejudice' seems - well - a very prejudicial statement!

it is a lighthearted and slightly archaic way of puting things.

whether or not you may or may not believe what is said to be an indicator would pen on the usage in each particular instance.

in his instance it seems one of those 'political correctness gorn mad' stories you hear.

oh cock. lots of missing letters.

'puting' = putting
'pen' = depend.
'his' = this

'How would there be an issue about referring to someone's religion in a story about er religion?'

Again, I am of Irish Protestant descent. That would be how.

Honestly, there's no gold standard for non-offensive terminology. It's contextual.

alsmutko I subscribe to that organisation's Newsletter too and also spotted the letter. It does read as pompous and made up from start to finish. I do think the author sounds anti-semetic and their (possible) old age is not an excuse.

I have had some direct dealings with the organisation in the past (helped out at their AGM a few years ago) and am concerned that they would print a letter like this when it clearly seems made up or exagerated.

[I am deliberately not naming the org as you haven't. Not sure if you want them to be outed!]

Lol @ The Cunt :o

does she talk about it a lot then?

This phrase appears in The Dead-from The Dubliners by James Joyce. We studied the story in school,and I distinctly remember Sister X commenting that it was such a beautiful way to refer to somebody's religion.
In the play,which is set in the 1910s in middle class Dublin society,one of the lady hostess refers to a guest as being "of the other persuasion...". That is,he was a protestant not a catholic. It is in no way meant as a slur or negative comment,just a terribly polite and middle class way to save someone's blushes!
Great story. I have often thought of it and that very phrase-which I have to admit-I have since used myself. Cannot see how it could be construed as racist....

Sorry I'm not with you LRD?

It is not 1910 and I don't know why one would need to 'save someone's blushes' about being protestant / jewish / jedi in 2011 in the UK.

Perhaps I see this as a language issue rather than a race / religion one. If you are relating an anecdote about someone who is an Orthodox Jew - why not just say that they are an Orthodox Jew rather than using twee insinuations, 100 year old cliches and possible factual inaccuracies (ie Israeli)? All of this has a negative and yes possibly anti-Semitic undertone.

because not everyone is as switched on as you? I know some people who wouldn't know an Orthodox Jew from a Jedi Knight and would say the wrong thing. Not usually offensive, but sometimes.

Like I said, the terminology added to the made up story is bad. But the terminology on its own, well it might or might not be. Its easy to forget that there are plenty of people who don't know anything about cultures or religions other than their own, who have no idea where someone would be from.

What on earth has 1910 to do with it? All I am trying to say is that, though you may not think referring to someone's religion rude or in any way likely to cause offense, for some people it is. It's nice for you that you don't find it offensive, but some people do. If you referred to my dad as a Protestant, he'd immediately think of the tensions between Protestants and Catholics and he would be on his guard.

Surely it is not hard to see that you are just picking a frame of reference that is not offensive to you? You've not suddenly discovered the perfect way to avoid all offensive terminology.

Was it an old person?

'Of the Israeli persuasion' seems like a very strange use of language to me!

Chill out LRD - I was referring to woopsidaisy's post not yours re: 1910.

I don't think referring to someone's religion using the correct term is rude in the context of it being a story about someone's religion. Context being everything.

I don't care about avoiding offensive terminology - I care about using language that is correct, accurate and properly judged for the audience. I don't think "of the Israeli persuasion" fits into that and I think, taken with the rest of the anecdote, it has anti-Semitic undertones.

As the daughter of an Irish Catholic I would never make the mistake IRL of discussing or referring to religion with ANYONE EVER.

I'm chilled, thanks Tondelayo. You used my name, so oddly enough, I took you to be talking to me. My mistake.

I think you are being obtuse, tba. Not everyone reacts the same way, so saying you use language that is 'properly judged for the audience' is pretty meaningless, isn't it?

That's OK. We all make them, tba.

Ah, clearly my language wasn't appropriate to my audience. That was sarcasm, dearie: you fucked up, not me.