To insist my dh goes off sick?

[legaleagle21]

My dh has crohns disease and is a police officer. He has worked in an office for the past year due to his condition (after 20 years fully operational). But now due to cuts he is being moved back to the an operational role.

We went to an appointment with the force doctor on monday who clearly stated there was no way he would be operational again but then on Friday he got a call from his boss to say he was being put in custody.

He is really upset and stressed, particularly as the doctor clearly stated this would not happen. So this is obviously making his condion worse. He has spent most of the weekend on the loo!

I have told him just to go off sick - as most people with the chronic diarohhea that he has, vitually everyday, would be off sick.

I think if he went off sick it would make the point that they need to find a more suitable job for him. As to lodge a greivence would be a difficult situation to put himself in with this sort of organisation.

Any thoughts appreciated?

Nataby due to his pacemaker he is unable to do psp training that means he is not cover, insured or whatever if he restains someone. Plus we have 3 kids he cant risk getting a knock and dislodging his pacemaker. so on that basis it is a no goer.

He couldgo in and start doing role but they are basicaly forces him to put himself at risk - personally and professionally as if he steps in to help officers dealing with an unruly prisoner he will put him self at risk but also he he injures the prisoner he will not be covered.

Additionally - a reasonable adjustment could be that all prisoner reviews are done through a door window - but what happens if he looks in and the prisoner is having a fit? Can he go in and help - knowing he is not insured to do so.

He is going to be put in an unreasonably stressful situatation. Plus the shifts and having to be there at a specific time. He has NO control over his bowel - how can he be sure he can relieve the night insepector at 7am - he would have to get up at 3 to know for sure he could do it. If he is unreliable with time it further adding to his stress by putting a burden on others.

In terms of a job has to be avaible - his whole dept is closing because of the focus on getting people back on the so called front line-- surely there is a need for some movement of asble bodied officers tp create vacancies for those with disabilities.

You're right there always has to be a pace inspector on duty to ensure that prisoners are being treated well and that all legislation is being complied with, but, if someone is brought in that is kicking off then it's all hands on deck. Also to check on the welfare of the prisoners he would be expected to check on them in their cell. Completely unsuitable with his medical condition. Keep hassling the fed and go back to occy health, often the older fed reps are the ones to go to as they know every single line of the regs where as the newer ones tend to give into smt a lot quicker

Ok, so he is the inspector overseeing custody. Although he will have to do reviews etc, I dont expect he will in reality spend alot of time in the custody area. Mostly, it is a desk based job.

Is it so different from the role he is doing now?

There's not so many able bodied about either. Has he looked at the jobs in hq, operations or control room?

Tiredtrout ther is an embargo on all adverts at the moment everything is through HR telling you where you're due to so many departments closing.

Unavailable - yes it will be mostly a desk job - but with 3 kids it really reasoanable to put him in a position were even once a year he is pinning down a drugged up looney that could head butt him in the chest.

PLUS I cannot emphasis enough how much the the crohns affects him. He can just about manage it now with diet and routine - throw shifts and the stress of being in time sensitive positions into the equation and he will be ill.

I think it is best to prempt all this b4 he become a v v sick man and stay off till a more suitable role is found.

NB he does his role v well now - he has meeting but the peole he deals with are police and community leader that understand they may have to wait 20 mins if he is on the loo (would a drunk prsioner?). Plus he has to write repots that he will frequently be working on till 2 or 3 or 3 in the morning to compensate for the fact he arrived at work an hour late due to needing the loo and pacing blood for an hour.

ATired tourt =- control room would also be unsuitable - as emergency call comes in and he is on the loo!!!

He is really restricted to HQ type jobs.

As his current role is being axed and from what you describe there must be very few roles that would be suitable for your dh, has medical retirement been discussed?

If there are no suitable positions for your dh, I dont know what the alternative could be.

Things are only likely to get tougher in the coming years in the police and all other public services.

I meant duty of care also forms part of an employment contract. And a failure to fulfil duty of care can mean the whole contract has been breached and effectively give grounds for constructive dismissal if an employee feels they have no option but to resign as a result.

And under th provisions of the EA you can't move someone into someone else's job because they have a disability. There is an option in redundancy cases to do this though - it's called bumping - but it's messy and rarely applied.

There have been cases won at Employment Tribunal where employers have failed to make reasonable adjustment which has included looking at other suitable job vacancies. But not jobs where someone else is in post. That said he would be prioritised over another candidate for the post so long as he met the essential criteria for the role.

I must confess I don't know a huge amount about the police force, just general employment law. Though with the EA being relatively new the scope of it has yet to be properly tested by common law cases (ie tribunal/court proceedings).

Sorry waffling on but I feel it is so unfair when so many jobs he could do are being sat on by people who have spent most of their their careers in office roles.
Pete hasn't. He has been out there for 20 years in some horible areas- 10 of which he has had diagnosed crohns and very little time off until the illness that caused the pacemaker caused a huge flare up that is still affecting him now.

I am angry and very scared for the future so please forgive any waffle!!!!

If he's old enough they may well look at medical retirement as an option but they should only do this if

a) your husband wants to and there are suitable posts

or

b) there are no other suitable posts (which in a police force is unlikely because police forces are large organisations).

You're allowed to waffle. I am waffling and I don't have a sick dh!

Meant to bold "your husband wants to" in my last post and put "and that applies even if there are suitable posts".

Unavaible we cannot afford a medical retirement - his pension would not ocover the mortgage.

Plus dh would not consider it - he feels he has lots to offer the job. He jsut feels people in HR are making decisions about roles and medical conditions they dont understand.

I appreciate that able bodied people cannot be moved just to suit him but i wonder where the law stood on people 'acting up'. A collegue has told him there are currently 6 sgts acting up to inspector on a temp basis- surely if any one of thise roles (no idea if it is) is suiuable for him he should be offered it????

Can your fed rep find out about those "acting up" filled positions? If any are more suitable than the role he has been offered, that sounds like a good way to go.

I hope you can get it sorted without too much stress.

The likelihood of him being injured as a result of the pacemaker in the proposed role although present, remains very low. You suggest approximate once a year. Thus the new role is reasonable. The equality act requires, risks being removed or reduced as much as reasonably practical.

As you also suggested, he has had crohns for more than 10 years. It's possible for this chronic condition to be managed symptomatically to enable some semblance of normal bowel pattern. You mention he has relapsed, has he been back to gastroenterologist for a review of treatment?

In my opinion, you sound like you think he is medically unfit for his work, however, you state that medical retirement is not a suitable alternative for him and your family.
YABU, comparing him, to others in the office is of little value, as you do not, or should not know the underlying medical reasons or managerial reasons why they gave been put where they are.

"have" not gave in my last sentence

In response to fitting prisoner, the risks will have to be determined then. If his personal risk assessment requires him not to help, no-one can prosecute him for being medically unsafe to respond in an emergency. If he is not required to undertake control and restraint training, I doubt that his employers will require him to perform this duty.

Nataby has given very good advice. Your DH is being redeployed as a part of a consulted restructure it sounds to me; the alternative would be redundancy, ie, no job at all but one has been found for him. The job appears to lend itself to reasonable adjustments and these need to be determined in conjunction with OHP and H&S - one of those adjustments should be toilet breaks and someone on hand to cover.

OP,you seem to be putting up a lot of barriers here - the situation isn't perfect but it keeps your income coming in, keeps your husband employed at his current grade and gives scope for adjustments as things bed down a bit. I think you need to bear in mind if dh goes off sick that a reasonable adjustment on the basis of OHP reports could be redeployment to a lower scale and less pressured position if dh is incapable of the job being offered. That may sound tough but it rather sounds to me as though a lot has been done behind the scenes to safeguard a job for him in what are difficult circumstances in the public sector. I think now dh and you need to start looking at this more positively and if you do you might find the situation less stressful.

It is unlikely that your dh will be assessed as permanently unfit for all work which is what an ill health early retirement requires. What he needs to do is negotiate reasonable adjustments in order to maintain his employment. Going sick isn't the answer; when the situation becomes less tight and there are other opportunities available it make internal applications less likely to succeed because his absence record will be looked at.

Have you/he made sure he is receiving optimum treatment for his medical conditions?

Thank you for your replies - I think it would seem that generally people think I am being unreasonable - often when you are personally involved in something it is hard to know what is reasonable.

I do think though even here there is a lack of understanding of the nature of crohns - loo breaks are not the answer - he hasto go when he has to go - he cant wait. And he can be on the loo for 30 mins at a time and then suffer terible nausea and cramps for an hour or so after. He is defiantely not a wimp and gets on with things as best he can.

I dont feel I am putting a lot of barriers up - I have had my dh very sick before and I have 3 kids under 5. While these things are not his employers problem I am just scared that he will ger really ill again and genuinely end up totally unable to work i n most roles.

At the moment he can work in a large number if not the majority of roles relevant to his rank - it is just his employer seems to have poorly managed the deployment, probably due to ignorance about the nature of his condition.

But PACE Inspector isn't generally considered 'operational' per se. In fact it is seen pretty much as a desk job.

You need the Force ME to outline exactly what restrictions your DH should have. The only thing I could generally see would be the shift work (is it 24/7? I know some Forces PACE Insp. covers only 7am to 11pm with response Inspectors doing the overnighters). If the FME just said 'non operational' without the specifics I can see why HR would think Custody Insp. was perfectly reasonable. Usually FME makes specifics like, no shifts, no face to face contact with the public etc etc. I think that is what you need if you haven't got it then you're on firmer ground then he needs to put in a grievance with his C/Insp Supt.

I have a DC with Crohns but doesn't need any adjustments and is truly operational (works all shifts 24/7 obviously doens't have the additional Pacemaker issue). The only issue is to ensure he doesn't get overloaded and therefore too stressed as obviously this is what sets it off and he did have a spell in hospital last year but thankfully nothing since.

I am with Nataby, KateMiddleton and you Legaleagle21 - your DP should be covered by the disability provisions of equalities legislation. His employer - even more so because it is a public service, so covered by more extensive legislation - must make reasonable adjustment - ie if it is impossible, they can't be expected to make a new job or keep him on in a less active role. This can't be the case in a big employer like the police. There must be roles which he can fill - indeed for the past few years he has been playing a full part in deliering police services in a role suitable to his situation.

How about contacting the Equalities and Human Rights Commission? There is advice on their website, and they may be able to give your DH some support. Also of course, his professional body - is it ACPO? They will be on his side, unlike possibly HR.

I think you need to think about the point you make in your last post that 'these things are not the employer's problem'. They're really not and that makes them irrelevant to whether the job is suitable. Using them as arguments will make your case appear weaker. Also, since you say he is regularly working on reports until 2 or 3 in the morning, this may well give the impression that he is capable of night work/shifts. It sounds like his Chrons is entirely out of control at the minute - is he seeing a consultant?

"it is just his employer seems to have poorly managed the deployment, probably due to ignorance about the nature of his condition."

But you don´t know that.

TBH, I think that you are lucky that your husbands employers are trying so hard to accomodate him.

If my husband could no longer do the job that he is employed to do & there was nothing else in the company that he could do-that´s it!

I agree that it would be better for him to try to do what he has been given rather than just go off sick without trying.

I don't think he does not require adjustments to work. What I think is unreasonable is expecting that him being off work, when he can work will change or improve the circumstances. This needs to be resolved in consultation with his managers.

Thanks everyone for the responses - Soooocynical - i particaly appreciate your comments as it explains more that nature of the role. Seems that maybe I am paniking b4 I know the full details.

In terms of your constable - I appreciate what your saying but it is not really helpful my dh has had crohns both diagnosed and not his whole adult life and has always been fully operationaly for 20 years in a variety of roles often on 3 shifts without issue. But his condition has now worsened and that is not possible now. There are very much degrees of the illness.

His restrictions are very clear in terms on no night duty, access to toilets but whether they go as far as saying flexible start time I am not sure.

Mainlymaine - you miss the point - there are days when he is passing blood on and off for say 4 hours in the morning - in between times he feels exhasted and sick - (the morning is usally the worse time of the day)so the job he does now means he can go in late and then stay late or bring work home to make sure he gets his work done and puts in a full day.
He could not work shifts and that would bugger up his routine - something that is vital to managing the condition. He needs flexibility.

Legal: I was just trying to point out that it needs to be made clear what restrictions are required for your DH specifically to manage his condition which seems to be what the Dr has said so I would imagine you are on stronger ground. I just mentioned my DC because, although he has Crohns, he doesn't need any adjustments so someone may assume it would be the same for all people who suffer Crohns but obviously isn't.

I did check the job desc. for PACE Insp in my force and it was described as Operational Support and not as an Operational role. Maybe different in different forces.

Hope you have made some progress. (Strange how many of these decisions get passed on Friday afternoon just as anyone can help goes shooting out the door!!)

I was also going to say going sick when you don't really need to is generally a bad idea. Certainly in my Force it can affect you being posted to another job (even when adjustments for illness/disabilities are taken into account). Also it can affect certain priority payments ( although as of today probably not thanks to Mr Winsor!!)