to not want to have ds christened when dh does?

[mikimoo]

Dh really wants to get ds christened but I really really don't. I am an atheist and dh doesn't believe in god either, however his parents are firm christians and I think he wants to be the dutiful son and do it to please them. We got married in their local family church for the same reasons- I felt an absolute hypocrite doing it but I felt it was more important to please family (including my own). For the record, I have nothing against my in-laws, they are lovely people and love them to bits, and to their credit they haven't even asked us what our plans our about christening him (ds is 18 months now so they've been patient!) but I feel very strongly that I don't want to impose a religion on my son. If he chooses a religion (any religion) later in life, then at least it's his choice.

I don't really follow dh's logic about why he needs to be christened - he cites that if he is asked to be godfather or a man of the church (!) later in life, he wouldn't be able to, and that without some sort of religious identity, he might feel his life is lacking something - all of which I don't agree with.

The prospective 'god' parents we've chosen would still be the kind of positive presence in our son's life we would want them to be, regardless of whether they carry the label 'godparent' or not. In fact, my best friend is an atheist too and she feels rather uncomfortable about standing up in church doing the whole godparent thing.

I would much prefer a humanist naming ceremony instead.

What do I do if dh insists on having ds christened? Refusing to go isn't an option, but then standing up in church agreeing to bring ds up in a godly way also sucks! I've been a hypocrite in a church once before which is bad enough, but it only involved me so now when it involves my child, I worry that I'm passing those hypocritical values onto ds. Or am I just overthinking this all and should just do what pleases the most people?

I was christened but that was what people did back then (early 70s), at least where we lived.

My dc are not christened. If they decide they want to be they can, so far neither have bothered.

If your dh is only doing it because of his parents then really you shouldn't be doing it at all.

I'm a Christian and I don't think that people should be standing up and making promises that they have no intention to keep and don't believe in. Neither should people be pressuring others into this. A thanksgiving service in Church could be an option but then you would still be thanking a God that you don't believe in for your child. Like another poster suggested perhaps the grandparents could do the actual thanksgiving bit. I don't think that by refusing to have your DS christened now you are being unfair to your DH as you are not preventing your DS from ever being christened, he can always make the decision when he is older. I think adult baptism is actually a better idea and infant baptism is becoming a lot less popular in the Church.

I don't agree with the approach of 'going along with it as it doesn't mean anything really' after reading about some people who were Christened as children (poss RC, i can't remember the details) and who as adults were unable to become un-Christened and were mighty p-ed off about their continuing status as official members of the church. It's maybe hard to imagine how that could be so annoying, I suppose having any status permanently attached to you without your consent could be annoying.

It does sound like a christening won't happen unless someone other than your OH organises it. I'm not sure if talking to his parents to clarify whether or not they want one or whether it's likely to happen is a great idea. As someone earlier said, it's not for the in-laws to make this decision and also, they may internally not really care (times have changed etc etc) but could find this difficult to admit if asked directly. IME anyone of my parents age was Christened and was involved with Sunday School or whatever as it was just expected back then.

Trifle - great idea! That's exactly what I'm going to do - get dh to take ds to church!

I also think the Thanksgiving idea is a brilliant one.

I should also add that the reason I feel more strongly now about the religious thing is that when my mum died last year, it made me think properly and clearly for the first time about my lack of religious belief (I call it that because, rightly or wrongly, I always used to equate atheism with being more of an active thing). Yes, perhaps, I should have thought about it before that but having to think about religion/atheism had never come up in such a meaningful way before.I suppose you might call me a born again atheist. I've also since joined the British Humanist Society too.

In the past, I wasn't so concerned about being a hypocrite - and neither, it appears, were my christian in laws! They all knew my views when we said we'd get married in the family church - they were pleased as punch and I got my christmas wedding with carols and candles. I even joked (in private, to my atheist friends) that if god did exist then he would strike me down as I entered the church. (He didn't, natch)

It's understandable that my dh and ILs now are finding it hard to work out now why I don't want ds to be christened when I didn't seem to have much of an issue about doing the religious thing before. Maybe it's because I'm a lot more thoughtful now than I was before - not just because I lost my mum but also because I have become one. Having a baby has made me think more deeply and carefully about lots of things - and one of them is that I don't want to be a hypocritical role model. However, I also really love and value my family/ILs and respect their views so that's where my quandary lies.

I do think though the Thanksgiving service is a really lovely idea and a compromise that would potentially suit everyone.

I don't know what you should do but I don't think it's fair for you to admit you've moved your goalposts but be annoyed when it appears that DH has moved his.

It's a tough one this, I don't know what I'd do in your situation tbh.

regarding the schools criteria...that is ONE thing I've never been a hypocrite about. I went to a church school myself but would never send my ds to church just to fulfil a school's religious criteria. As a teacher at an inclusive, inner-city multi-ethnic college with a firm secular policy, that is something I've always had very strong views about.

The Godfather is later life thing can be sorted by being Christened in later life so thats that sorted.

The point of a christening is not some kind of heavenly insurance policy, and I know OP you don't think that way.

I am a regular churchgoer and every time we have a christening I am slightly stunned at how uncompromising the language is in the promises that people are required to make. Renouncing sin and the devil , promising to be responsible for the child's spiritual life etc- it's all pretty hardcore unreconstructed unfluffied stuff.

Also - the point is very much that of welcoming the child into the family of the church in general and the local church in particular, which is rather pointless if you have no intention of going to it.

If you have a thanksgiving service though, who are you directing the thanks to? Can't you just have a naming ceremony as per original post?

GwendolineMaryLacey - I'm not annoyed at dh. Far from it. We've not argued about it, just discussed our points of view. I don't necessarily agree with all of them but the reason why I posted in the first place was because I think he might have a valid point of view and wondered whether others could offer a different perspective.

You're right about moving my goalposts - I have, but just because my views have shifted somewhat, I don't think that they are not as valid.

Katisha - I was thinking that Ds's grandparents (my ILs) might want to hold the thanksgiving, not us. Yes, I would much rather just have a naming ceremony.

If some sort of ceremony is being called for (however silently!) then I think you could maybe take the initiative and organise the one YOU want. Don't have it for/by other people. And certainly not without talking to them about it all first - you may be second guessing them wrongly.

I don't understand why you would have your child christened if neither you nor your DH are believers or churchgoers. If your DS does feel his life is 'lacking' without a religious identity when he's older, he can always choose to follow a religion and be christened then if appropriate.

I would not stand up and say hypocritical things or lie about my intentions in church, that's disrespectful to the people who do believe and won't do much for your self-respect and sense of integrity either.

YANBU

The baptism promises are pretty hardcore, and I don't really see the point in making them if you don't believe in them, that would feel wrong to you and wrong to those who do believe. A thanksgiving is an option, but again you are saying thanks to a God you don't believe in which seems somewhat pointless.

I know many see infant baptism as a nice little ceremony and excuse for a party (not saying you do, I admire you for thinking this all through) but it does mean a lot more than that to those who believe. I'm sure your ILs would appreciate this, and if they didn't, then in that case for me it would be a case of Tough.

If you feel a naming ceremony is what is best for your family, and if dh agrees, then that may be the way forward for you. Or, like someone suggested, if dh is serious, perhaps he should take ds to church awhile and think it all through for himself, rather than doing something just to please others.