To tell a mother that she is wasting her money.

[hockeyforjockeys]

This is slightly hypothetical as I don't think I'd have the nerve to have this conversation but still want to know what others think.

I'm a Year 5 teacher and was told by one of my class today that their mother had started sending to them to tuition for the 11+. The child is currently acheiving below age expectations (ie. on level 2/3 border) but has made excellent progress this year, which I'm very pleased about and told their mother this at the recent parents evening. I also said that if they continued to put in the hard work and make the same sort of progress then they have a good chance of acheiving Level 4s by the end of Year 6. This child has been on the SEN register since reception for Speech and Language Difficulties, and is still recieving input, so it was nice to tell her that they were starting to catch up with their peers.

Even though this is all great news I know they haven't a hope in hell of passing the 11+ as their reasoning skills are not good (both verbal and non-verbal). Our year 6s have just got their places and several who are much brighter than this child haven't got in to grammar school. I think that I was probably far too jargony at parents evening and the mum has misinterpreted what I told her (she is also not from the UK which makes it more difficult to understand the system). Basically I think she has been conned by this tutor and will just waste her money. I don't know her financial situation but based simply on where she lives and what her child has I would imagine things would be tight. So should I warn her or just quietly fume that somebody is taking her for a ride

Why don't you ask her then say you really think that putting them forward for it is undue stress when you feel they will not pass?

Something like that.

My son was on Level 7 when he finished Junior School, isn't Level 4 low?

Is it possible that the child has got the wrong end of the stick and they're not being tutored for the 11+ but just to improve generally?

I do think it is worth speaking to the mum - but do go very carefully and make sure you have all the facts right.

Pupils are not the most accurate source of information. You maybe adding two and two together and making ten to the power of six. Maybe the tutor is honest and is actually giving this girl the attention she needs to progress. Paying for a tutor so that a child will get to a respectable reading age is not a waste of money. Its skills for life.

Prehaps the parents are sending the child to a tutor to get them off the special needs register rather than to prepare for the 11 plus.

Bloody hell the amount of people who told me I should get a tutor for DS2!. One even offered to spend time with him a few hours a week with some flashcards. They didnt get the nature of his SN at all and made me feel like a crap parent.

Because I wasnt willing to fork out 45 quid a week in a pointless exercise?

Sorry, hijack but this post reminded me of a particularly stressful time

Level 4 is the expected level for an 11 year old - a Level 7 would be extremely unusal, only the very occasional gifted child as it is what is expected for bright 14 year olds.

been there OP! am am ex teacher, tutored my DD through the 11+ last year,not that she needed much, we just did past papers and she was getting 90%+ from the start. many of her friends were tutored (paid) for 2 years and you could just TELL which had not got the ability to pass - do the parents not realise that if they have had extensive support for literacy skills, they are just not going to make it - even if they do get through by the skin of their teeth, they will struggle to keep up with the pace at grammar

BUT it's their money, you just have to bite your tongue like I did!

The Mother probably won't listen to you anyway, so I would leave it and just hope that the tuition helps improve the child's general standard.

He is gifted! Just curious. Thank you.

The child already has a general tutor which I have spoken to mum about, and it seems to have had a positive impact. The child in question described to me in quite a bit of detail the session and said it was specifically for the 11+, but yes I do realise that things can get lost in translation!

You may be convinced of your opinion of this child's potential but don't you should consider the possibility that you may not have 100% predictive ability. If there is a chance for this child to progress to that level why would you want to stand in the way . You are the teacher for 1( ? ) year of this child's life .
Whilst I am sure that you dont' mean to sound condescending to suggest how this ' financially constrained family' should spend their money is patronising and a little insulting IMO.
I was written off in primary school; I was tutroed for 3 months, passed 11 + then didn't go to the grammar school as I didn't like it. Went to an ordinary comprehensive but got very good A levels and went of to post-graudate studies. I am glad my parents didn't listen to my primary teachers.

wobblypig I have definitely not written this child off as a failure, and I would be more than delighted if this child had the same level of success that you have had. However I am an experienced enough professional to know that it will not be happening by next November. I am not going to go into details but a large part of their SEN is surrounding reasoning skills, which has been independently assessed.

hockey, I'm not knocking your professional skills, but the parents may think they 'know' something you don't. Or they may have other reasons for putting her in - eg., if her older sibling or friend is also doing it, they may not want to give the message they don't think she's bright enough even to try.

Btw, experienced teachers told me I wouldn't pass entrance exams for secondary school, told me I wouldn't get in to the university I went for, etc. etc. I did ... experience isn't always a perfect predictor of future performance.

please say something.

There was a boy in our school who was average all the way through school and the parents were in lala land. They put him through every grammar exam possible including Tiffin and he ended up at the local state comp having failed to pass any.

I dread to think of the pressure this child must have experienced. Add to that a financial investment which is then not realised. The only person benefiting being a sharkey tutor who isn't that concerned by the child's welfare (which you are). You might be their only advocate.

Please say something. Even if it falls on deaf ears. There is still a chance they will stop and rethink how they go about things.

Sorry, just re-read my post and realized I didn't say what I meant to say.

I think YABU to tell her 'you are wasting your money', and YABU to assume they are automatically in the wrong, as they might have a reason to do it and you might (I know it is only a pretty tiny chance) be wrong too.

But YANBU to warn her that it doesn't look likely and might not be the best idea. Hope that makes sense now.

But you are their teacher not their parent.

Leave the parents to decide, taking into consideration info provided by school and the independent assessment, to what level they wish to push their child. If they are unrealistic then the child may benefit in other ways without passing the 11+. The funding may be coming from elsewhere - but even so still isn't really your business. If you really think that the parents have be disproportionately buoyed by your recent report, in which case you have an obligation to give realsitic views but not tell them not to be optimistic for their child and certainly not to tell them they are wasting their money as you seem to imply.

Dragon - I completely understand your argument as just this week a child I taught last year has got into grammar school, which if asked last year I would have thought unlikely. Yes parents do often feel they know something the teachers don't (and my parents were one of these in regards to my brother!). However I know that this mother was very worried about their progress, and I am worried that I've managed to give her false hope. The child in question is already getting 2 1/2 hours extra literacy support, 1 hour extra maths, 1 hour language and I've just finished one to one maths tutoring with them, top this with the extra tutoring at home and they are getting a lot of suppport yet are still behind the majority of their peer group even if they are making progress.

As I said the chances of me actually having this conversation is low because at the end of the day it is their choice, and I really don't like to have to have difficult conversations unless absoloutly necessary. More just want to vent my frustration that I feel they are being taken for a ride, and also worried that they have got the wrong end of the stick after parents evening.

Maybe they are doing it so that they know they did everything they could to get him into grammer school. perhaps they don't want to feel like they have not given him every chance. Some people like to feel that they have done everything that they could.

Ah, I see ... it does sound difficult if the child's good progress this year has let the parents in for someone taking advantage.

Do you think the child is unhappy about it all?

I don't think necessarily in terms of the actually tutoring (although they did say the tutor was very strict!), and they really like having personal attention. What I am worried about is that when they don't pass they are going to feel like a failure, as they are always really surprised and happy when they are praised.

Yes, that does sound tough. But then again, maybe the personal attention in itself will be enough to make them feel happy? Would it be too dishonest to suggest to the parents that they present the tutoring as preparation for secondary school, rather than just for the exam? Maybe then s/he could feel that even if the exam didn't go as hoped, the tutoring was a kind of reward for recent progress and a good preparation?

Clutching straws a bit, just trying to think what I would want if it were me/mine. I've just started teaching students and though they are much older, I feel awful when they get their hopes up and are disappointed. It's really sad.

You sound lovely to be so concerned, btw.