to have spent thousands of £s on 11+ tuition and still dd has no place!

[annoydmum]

so depressed!spent alot of money on tuition to no avail :(.....

More fool you!

But your DD had lots of one to one help, which will surely stand her in good stead.

Agree with other posters that if a child is suited to grammar school shouldn't need more than a few (maybe 10-15) hours of tuition - on top of parental support/help.

TBH I think its wrong that those who can afford tutoring can "buy" places.

I agree with all the others. If she hasnt got the natural ability to pass 11+ then she would spend the next few years miserable, struggling and under too much pressure to enjoy her childhood.

Wasted money.

You cant buy brains.

I still don't see why the principle behind grammar schools is so accepted. It's divisive. Being very clever is just one genetic trait amongst many... red hair, good eyesight, etc etc

But it always brings out the words 'thick' and rich or poor and thick; bad all round imo

Am not sure the op is real in any case.

omnishambles I'm in Kent which has a county wide selection process (bar one or two little pockets) so you don't take exams for particular schools, one exam fits all the grammars - its the score that determines which school you get. as long as you pass (usually an aggregate score of around 360, they give you a grammar .....somewhere.

never heard of anyone passing and not getting given a place though you do find people getting allocated grammrs nowhere near to where they live.

Tutoring is the norm because there are several super selectives that take you only if you pass with a particular score.

Its unusual not to be tutored. Tends to start in Y5. The primary schools though often hold lunchtime clubs for those wanting to go for the 11+. I assume so as not to disadvantage those children whose parents can't afford the private tutors

I was assuming that the OP's dd had passed the 11+ already??

MB, the principle behind grammar school education is to do with ability, but not ability based on genes. There is no way of testing innate ability.

I mean it is luck if you inherit the ability to pass this highly competitive test. Being clever is a trait, yes working hard and all that. So one child is smart, another not so. It can even happen in the same family.

forget the 11+ , it's lazy journalism I hate

My take is that excellent schools should be available to all ranges and types of children not just very clever ones. But the state system is divisive.

I don't think a bright child needs tutoring.Practice yes.But that is the cost of a few papers/books.

There isn't anything special about grammar schools other than their intake, and consequently the fact that they are able to put in place systems like 2 hours of homework a night because the parents of their intake support it.

So I can't see how they would be excellent without that intake.

Yet people obsess about their children getting into them. And it brings out the worst (thick/rich etc). I think, even if by virtue of intake alone, parents have cottoned on to the fact they are near enough a being a free independent....

But it is true I am not in the system. going only on mn and the dedication stress you see on 11+ forums.

Absolutely Milly and some of them don't even do particularly academic subjects. One I know does media studies and business studies but not Latin! As a result of another thread I had a peek at the curriculum for Tiffin and was amazed to see that they offer GCSE Dance - so much for grammar schools being for the.more academic!!!

So they are not that academic?

I don't think they are like a free independent. Independent schools usually have reasonable buildings and facilities.

The intake makes a huge difference IMO. Seriously contemplated sending the DCs to a state grammar.

In fairness to the OP (unless I've missed something) I'm normally vociferous about the need not to tutor, but it appears that some grammar schools are ridiculous enough to test maths that is not actually even taught in state schools. For those sort of grammars, tutoring is actually necessary. Nuts IMO, and wholly unfair

Some are more academic than others. The school DS is at offers qualifications in dance but they are taught outside of school hours. They can't do it instead of their GCSE options.

Ah I see, I must admit I haven't visited one.

I think it is right that grammar schools offer some non-academic subjects. Just because children are able in academic subjects doesn't mean that they don't also have an interest in dance, art or music. It can be a good thing to have one creative subject at GCSE.

11+ is a gamble. DD4 sat 2 foe 2 different school (no tuition) she passed one and not the other.

'I still don't see why the principle behind grammar schools is so accepted.'

I don't think it is-except by those who get a place!

someone earlier replied to the op " you can't buy brains"

op, you sound really nasty, your poor dd!

lack of brains is the least of her worries.......

"I don't think they are like a free independent. Independent schools usually have reasonable buildings and facilities."

Oooh, handbags Milly.

I don't understand what you mean BBH.

Whoa! Kent has changed a lot since 1988 when I did the 11+. We just wandered in to school one day, took some test and that was it. Neither my parents, nor I or the rest of the class realised it had actually happened! The only thing that made us slightly suspicious was that the teacher gave us eclairs afterwards.

Hmm Wonder if this is real.... Anyhow, I'll say - clearly not bright enough. However much you spend it can't alter the IQ....only the technique which is probably enough for the borderliners...And if she isn't even borderline she would have been miserable all the time being behind, so it's probably for the best.