Or am I being PFB?

[simonedeboudoir]

DD1 told me this evening that on 3 occasions this afternoon a boy in her class pulled down her tights and pants and 'put his hands in her bottom' She demonstrated what he did. I am fucking livid.

Both children are 5, in reception.

She said that on 2 occasions no adult saw and she didn't tell anyone. On the third occasion a teacher noticed and called the boy away.

I have phoned the other mum, with whom I'm on good terms, and explained what DD1 has told me. I was calm, I know her and we're on friendly terms. I said I understand that often children aren't aware of the significance of their actions. But as I've promised DD1 it will not happen again, I will have to inform the school. The other mum sounded like took it seriously and will speak to her little boy and tell him he mustn't do it again.

So. I'm posting this for your views on my reaction and next steps. I'm feeling emotional, trembling and furious. But am I overreacting? They are only 5. But she was upset as she told me, and confused. Am I right to take it up with school? Do I just chat to the class teacher or the head aswell? What should I say and what should I expect from them.

Thanks.

Not PFB at all. I would be furious. Teacher should have talked to DD about it. I would speak to her and my first question would be to ask why she didn't. Kids will be kids - he probably didn't realise this was inappropriate behaviour and it sounds like his mum will deal with it.

I would definitely talk to the teacher first. She may not have seen exactly what happened, so going to the Head when it's the teacher who'll be dealing with it seems pointless.

I think tell class teacher who might suggest something like a discussion of personal space in class. I would also mention that it is a shame that it happened three times before it was spotted, and that you would have appreciated being told that it had happened. Get agreement that they would expect your daughter to be able to tell the teachers something like this and that it would be dealt with.

Talk to your daughter and make sure she knows to shout 'no, don't do that" extremely loudly if someone tries something like this again.

But I wouldn't get more upset about this than if another child had, say, pinched her, or pulled her hair. It's an invasion of her personal space and inappropriate but it's not the same as older children doing this sort of thing (i.e. not intended to degrade, not sexual)

You're not being PFB, your DD has told you something you feel alarmed at, there'd be something wrong with you if you didn't feel a bit shocked.

But you have to balance it with the fact that children get up to all sorts when they're together.

It might seem sexualised behaviour to us, but the chances that it is are very remote.

I would start off with talking to the teacher, and see how it pans out from there.

The most important thing is not to alarm your DD, it's good she told you, but try not to make it bigger than it is in her head IYSWIM.

It's also good the other mum took it seriously.

I'm sure now your DD has said something a close eye will be kept on them both.

Other mum must have been mortified. Brilliant that she has responded well.

Thanks so much for the replies. One time was in a cupboard , one was in the classroom. The occasion that was spotted by a teacher was in assembly.

schmee yes it feels like a classroom supervision issue too doesn't it.

hear hear schmee - at 5 this is not a sexual thing - it's a one kid annoying another kid thing. Ask your daughter to say "Stop doing that" loudly, and go and speak to a teacher just as she would for hair pulling etc.

well at five it might not be a sexual thing but equally it could be.

It could be that the child has an older sibling - old enough to talk about differences and putting hands in places and things but young enough not to know that telling the five year old brother isn't appropriate.

It could be that he has walked in on his parents and has acted out something.

Or it could be that this child has been sexually abused - you can just never be sure.

I would talk to the school, I would try not to get too upset that it wasn't spotted before - if it happened quickly and your dd got herself back together quickly then it might just not have been spotted. It really isn't possible to see exactly what all 30 children are doing all of the time.

But still talk to the school and they will know how to handle it. And do consider that they may have to deal with it in terms of it being a child protection issue (on the part of the little boy), so try not to be too angry at him.

When I was 5 a boy in my class did a similar thing to me, no hands in, and although it I suppose wasn't sexual it dud very much feel like a big invasion of my body and I felt embarrassed and ashamed that he pulled my pants down. So it is a different kind of behaviour imo. Hope your DD is ok.

I don't think you can say "at 5 this is not a sexual thing". Acting out of sexualised behaviour is a classic sign of a child who has been sexually abused. I think you are absolutely right to be taking this seriously. Hopefully it was silliness, but you need to take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I actually think it is important for the head to know this has happened, for the sake of the other child as well as yours. Suggest you ask for an appointment, possibly with the teacher there as well.

You probably know this already, but the absolutely key current buzzword in education is "safeguarding". You might find it useful. The safeguarding buck stops with the governors. If you are not satisfied with head's response, the governors would be your next step. I expect the head will take it seriously though.

I hope you are okay. I expect your DD will forget all about it pretty quickly, but YADNBU to want to protect her. It is your job.

This happened at my DS's school. A boy in yr1 pulled down a girls knickers and touched her and he was expelled. I believe it only happened the once, although obviously there could have been a back story to it.

A few parents felt that this was an over the top reaction but the majority thought it wasn't enough

I'm sorry - I read the original post as "touched her on her bottom" not "in" which is different if that means what I think it means. Apologies. So yes it could be either. I'm very sorry to hear about it and I hope your daughter is OK.

As for the boy - I very much hope it was innocent for his sake.

navyblueknickers - I'm really shocked to here that a boy was excluded at age 5 or 6 for doing that. I would have thought the appropriate thing to do would have been to get him some help, particularly if it was viewed as a sinister incident. I can't believe parents were baying for his blood. Poor child.

same as schmee says.

This child has a serious problem. This is NOT normal behaviour. He must have been following the OPs daughter looking for opportunities to do it again and again if he did it 3 times in one afternoon. If it was my child I would be taking it further than speaking to the school.

We had a similar issue with a little boy in my ds's class. They went to the same pre-school and one day ds told me x was 'cheeky' (x was/is the 'naughty boy' at school, needs a teaching assistant with him 1 on 1 to control his behaviour, he hurts others kids, is disruptive etc.) I asked what x had done and ds replied 'he tried to put things up my bottom'. After almost falling off my chair I discovered he'd got a toy screwdriver and was poking ds's bum (outside of trousers) and saying he was going to put it up. They were 3 at this point and I was shocked, I didn't think a 3 year old should know things go up bottoms. My ds certainly didn't.
I told the preschool and they assured me nothing untoward happened as they are never left unsupervised. They didn't seem to lisen when I said I was more worried about x then my son, why would he play games about putting things up bums?

Fast forward a year and the boys are in the same class and last October ds told me x got him and another boy into the playhouse at playtime and told ds to pull his trousers down and show his bum and willy to other boy, and that they weren't allowed to tell anyone. Ds did pull his pants down, but thankfully told us. The other didn't though which is scary, even after I'd rang his mum and explained what happened, she asked him if he'd been in the playhouse with ds and x, and he denied everything.

I went into to school the next day and told the teacher, including what had happened a year earlier at preschool and she did seem slightly concerned. I made a point of telling her how worried I was for this little boy, again ds was fine, he thought it was quite funny really but I am so concerned something is happening to this boy.

Guess I'm trying to say (and lets really hope) this could just be a 5 year old who finds bums funny (my ds could laugh at wee, poo and bums all day), but I would definately speak to the teacher, mentioning the safeguarding thing as timeforanap mentioned, so if anything worrying happens with another child they may be a log of things.

I know I was vague re the action itself in my OP. This was deliberate, though I can see it might have given rise to different interpretations, so apologies. But no it wasn't just a case of touching her on the buttock.

The boy's mum mentioned in our phone conversation that he's going through a phase of doing this with other boys. DD1 and him have been close friends up until today, so perhaps he saw it as an extension of this 'play'?

no, not PFB at all. I would be really worried if this happened to my DD, and would definitely be chasing it up with the school.

I think at that age it's far more likely to be "bottoms are funny", just as a certain amount of willy display is also normal.

But the children need to learn appropriate behaviour. The school should be made aware. They will have experience in dealing with it (including keeping an eye out for wider safeguarding issues).

Ok so my conversation tomorrow will be with the class teacher (who I like and rate highly) covering points as follows:

1. This incident happened 3x and DD was upset by it

1. I am disappointed that it was only spotted by a teacher on the third occasion (not the reception teacher, btw, it was a different member of staff who called the boy away in assembly - so the reception teacher might not be aware?)

1. My expectation now is that staff members will be alert to this and in particular ensure that they are not alone together unsupervised. Also that DD1 will not be 'paired' with him (she said 'I don't want to sit next to him now but I have to because he's my partner' )

Thanks everyone. I was physically shivering for a while this evening, now much warmer but v sleepy!

Try to be chilled in front of your daughter (easier said than done I know) because your reaction now will teach her whether or not she feels safe to come to you if/when something inappropriate bothers her later in her childhood. You must be doing something right, she told you in the first place, a lot of kids don't have that confidence.

I hope it went well and that they responded appropriately.

Thanks schmee and everyone else who responded

I'm happy with the response of the school. The other boy's mum had obviously briefed her first (we were late this morning) and on our arrival the teacher asked him to apologise to DD1 and also to me. He'd also brought in a 'sorry' card that his parents had got him to make at home. The teacher and I then had a private meeting during which she took notes. She asked if I'm happy for her to share these details with the head. I went into more explicit detail about the incident with her than I did in my OP here and she was quite shocked. She assured me they will be kept apart and will never be alone unsupervised.

The boy's mum was waiting for me outside school and apologised, she seems mortified, both parents spoke to him firmly this morning and he's going to be punished this weekend apparently (withdrawal of treats).

Thanks again everyone for holding my hand

I'm really pleased that it is being taken seriously and being sorted out to your satisfaction. x

The head has just called me, the reception teacher has clearly updated him on what's happened.

He wanted to discuss and make sure I'm happy with the steps they're taking at the school to ensure it doesn't happen again. He's going to speak to the other mum too.