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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

Original poster

to wonder if so many kids get into grammar school just because they live near by, it will bring the pass rates down?

23 replies

ajuba · 02/03/2011 22:21

the grammar schools I live near allocate the majority of places just on the distance criteria, so I'm wondering, this will inevitably include less intelligent children, so won't it affect the exam pass rates? surely the teaching can only go so far to bring them up to speed?

OP posts:

BoysAreLikeDogs · 02/03/2011 22:51

at least you have grammar schools nearby

nearest to us is 30 miles away

also, don't understand your question; grammar schools are selective, non?

Original poster

ajuba · 02/03/2011 22:54

Only partially selective, majority of places, if I have understood it correctly go to those who live nearest to the school.

OP posts:

hardhatdonned · 02/03/2011 22:55

Ours are fully selective

BoysAreLikeDogs · 02/03/2011 22:56

do they not do 11+ ?

Greenshadow · 02/03/2011 22:57

Presumably the children still have to pass the 11+. Do they then take the closest?

BoysAreLikeDogs · 02/03/2011 22:57

seems bizarre to have a GS that doesn't select [puzzled]

CrispyTheCrisp · 02/03/2011 22:57

Ours are fully selective i believe

BoysAreLikeDogs · 02/03/2011 23:03

more info needed

'I understand' isn't the same as 'this is what happens'

Original poster

ajuba · 02/03/2011 23:08

May be I'm confused about the grammar schools in watford but they only select about a third of pupils on ability.

OP posts:

meditrina · 02/03/2011 23:09

In some places, a school retains its historic name as a grammar school even though the area is fully comprehensive (eg I think Harrogate Grammar). And there are many examples of comprehensives which select a proportion of their places on ability/potential.

JarethTheGoblinKing · 02/03/2011 23:10

Our local comp has better scores than the grammar :-)

MollieO · 02/03/2011 23:13

Doesn't sound like a traditional GS to me. Ours selects on distance etc however you have to pass the 11+ to be eligible for the selection criteria.

Waltons · 02/03/2011 23:18

The Watford schools aren't grammar schools (even though some of them have grammar in the name), but Partially Selective schools.

They select a percentage of their intake through the 11+ (I think it is 25%) and the rest are just admitted on distance.

A1980 · 02/03/2011 23:53

Not necessarily. Grammar schools generally offer education that is superior to ordinary state schools.

So one would hope that being a the school from 11-18, the grammar school would be able to educate all these "run of the mill" children who got in merely by living close by to the standard to pass exams with good grades.

pawsnclaws · 03/03/2011 07:21

What Waltons said. The percentage of pupils selected on academic ability has dropped over the last few years as the adjudicator has made WGSB offer more "community" places - they also had to get rid of the cross-sibling rule for WGSG.

littlebylittle · 03/03/2011 10:12

Do the children gave to pass the test then get put into the process that then selects by distance? That seems reasonable. Or at least logical. What seems mad is the Watford thing where one sibling passing the test allows all siblings a place regardless if ability. Neither one thing nor the other.

NewTeacher · 03/03/2011 11:10

I do believe both Watford girls and boys grammar schools are fully selective. You have to take an entrance exam and siblings do no get in on a sibling basis.

Parmiters is a partially selective school and a percentage get in on exam and the others via the sibling rule and distance.

meditrina · 03/03/2011 11:14

The partially selective comprehensive near here admits a number in test results, and the rest on the typical criteria (looked after, SEN, siblings, distance). But the only siblings who qualify are those where the eldest was admitted under the "community" criteria. Siblings of selective place pupils have no priority.

pawsnclaws · 03/03/2011 11:56

Both Watford and Parmiters are part of the same consortium - you sit one test if you want to apply to any of the schools in the consortium. There is no 11+ as such because Herts does not "recognise" grammar schools, so these schools are a bit of an anomaly. They are NOT fully selective - there is a set priority order and it is perfectly possible to get in on distance if you live close enough. Only 25-35% get in on the academic/musical selection criteria. The remaining 65% are by definition community places and cannot be allocated to selected applicants.

My understanding is that the sibling rule only applies to the community places not to the specialist places. So if you get ds1 in because you live close to the school you'll get ds2 in. If you get ds1 in on a specialist place, then no sibling place automatically for ds2. Same as meditrina.

pawsnclaws · 03/03/2011 11:59

Sorry that last paragraph applies to Watford only - no idea what the sibling rule is there.

pawsnclaws · 03/03/2011 12:00

Doh! Try again ... the last paragraph applies to Watford only not Parmiters - no idea what the sibling rule is there.

mollymole · 03/03/2011 17:02

a grammar school fairly close to me allocates place on distance AFTER the passing of the 11+ - is this what you mean

pawsnclaws · 03/03/2011 17:36

mollymole no I think the OP is referring specifically to Watford Grammar - no 11+, just a selection test if you choose to go for one of the academic places (but this is only 25% - see above - the rest are 10% music and 65% SOLELY on distance). The system you describe is the one we will be using for the Bucks grammars - everyone takes the 11+ and then IF you pass the places are allocated by distance.

Flip