Just received email saying tuition fees to be increased to 9K from next year. aibu to want to weep?

[ladysybil]

It wont affect the amount i pay, as i am already a student. grandfather law applies. I knew this was coming. but am still unreasonably upset at this.

Err...not one person I know who did a science degree (eg, my DH and most of his uni friends) now works in anything to do with their discipline at all.

I work in the financial sector - hardly any of my colleagues studied anything vocational at uni. If they are qualified at all (eg, accountants), it was post-grad. Nursing/architecture/design I'll give you are properly vocational - and arguably, subjects in which you shouldn't need a degree to qualify.

Totally agree not everyone is academic and there should be more apprenticeships etc. But not all non-vocational degrees are 'hobbies'.

Some people are unfortunate enough that what looks like a promising path of study doesn't work out that way and they end up working in something else. Such is life. But if you haven't got a definite job planned out in your head when you apply to uni, then IMO it's a hobby degree. If you're not sure what you want to do, take a gap year!

I work in science. So conversely to you, pretty much everyone I know who studied science how had a job in the field. It depends on your social circle.

I agree with you Starise. Just because subjects like English literature and history are non vocational they shouldn't be dismissed as worthless. I hate the utilitarian approach we are adopting towards higher education in this country. Anyway, apart from medicine, you won't find any vocational degrees offered at Oxford or Cambridge and I dont' see many mnetters complaining about that.

OK, I may seem ignorant of how things work here because I'm forrin'.

But can someone please explain to me what the big deal about going to Oxford or Cambridge is then, if you can't study anything which will actually give you a job at the end?

And if you want a job, why bother with Oxford or Cambridge anyway, then? Leave it to the snobs and go to a real uni, get a useful degree and get a job!

I'm not against art, literature etc degrees. They are wonderful things. But my friends who studied them went on to be teachers, so they earned money and repaid their debt.

I just feel that it costs a lot of money to put a student through higher education, and I can't really see the point of the State funding when there will be no return. Surely education is supposed to be an investment?

AnnieL, the purpose of a university degree is so much more than job training. Anyway, the state isn't going to be funding arts and hummanities students any more. These students will be paying upto £9000 to comnpletely fund their own studies.

Only University departments offering science and medicine will receive funding to subsidise their courses, for which students are also paying upto £9000 per year.

The point of higher education is not to be just a straightforward and mechanistic financial return on investment for the individual. The arts and humanities are no less important to our economic success than science and medicine so we need highly educated young people of all disciplines.

To enter virtualyl every well paid profession you need a good degree from somewhere like Oxford or Cambridge or anoyther good university. That's the reason it helps to have gone there because vast swathes of jobs require you to have graduated at 21 with a good degree and then you go into the graduate training programmes of accountancy firms, advertising agencies or join a big bank as a banker etc etc. This is just how the system is. It is fairly hard to enter most of those jobs without a good degree.

Annie: what about chem eng, EE, CS, Mech eng etc? Or don't you count those as vocational?

Oops, sorry that was aimed at crystal who claimed that oxford and Cambridge don't offer any vocational degrees other than med, which is patently nonsense.

Yes Hogsback you are right. However the vast majority of degrees studied here are not vocational.

Meditrina - no I'm not out of date - this is what I do for a livign!!!!!

The SLC will give out the loans. TBH I suspect the system will change over the next few year, and some banks may start to provide loans in the same way as career developments loans are available to a few who meet the banks' criteria. Also I suspect there will be a lot more companies sponsering their employees through their degrees - e.g. Accountancy firms taking bright A Levels students, paying them a pittance but funding them through university.

Whatever the system will be in 2012/13, loans for all who want them, limited loans, universities being made to cap numbers - and we won;t know any of this until the (delayed) white paper comes out, things will undoubtedly change for a few years after that as things 'bed down' - 2012/13 will not be the end of change or uncertainty.

FWIW I work at one of the 'new' universities (former poly) and they're talking about setting fees at £8.5K/year. My feeling is that ALL unis will charge as close to the limit as possible and there will be minimal difference between what Russell Group universities charge and what others will.

As soon as institutions are told they're allowed to charge 'up to' an amount they will go straight for the upper end. eg. When the Office of Fair Trading told credit card companies they could only charge 'up to' £12 late payment fee, they didn't go for a fiver they went for the full whack. Instituions are greedy businesses and will do everything possible to maximise their profit. The uni that I work for has reported record reserves and surpluses for last year, but are still shouting about the need for caution, and are laying off staff, closing down courses...

Annie - if you have Oxford or Cambridge on your CV, getting jobs can be considerably easier. IME, If you're wanting to go into a grad scheme at a top tier investment bank, accounting firm or law firm, they pretty much only look at Russell Group and Oxbridge graduates.

And it is possible to work throughout your degree and get a good degree - I was working 25 hours a week in my "PT" job at one stage, and still managed to graduate from a Russell Group uni with a 2:1. But then I might just be a genius ...

YANBU

OH has been to oxford as have his parents / grandparents etc.

I think the fees are rediculous. (we thought they were high enough when they were introduced (a year before we both started uni) )

(I didnt go to oxford though)

I'm not so sure it will stop any one faffing about doing useless degrees. Study (party) for 3 years then get a low paid job/get married have children stay at home and you pay back nothing.

I worked throughout university, including a 40 hour week in a retail management job in the last year. it took some juggling but I graduated with honours and a dual degree. this was in the US so maybe the courseload was different but from accounts of UK universities vs. US I doubt it.

Taking it personally... if those fees had been around when I was studying I'd have qualified with somewhere in the region of 54k debt (plus interest) for a 6 year degree. Then add 6 years of living expenses (rent/food) to that and I'd be looking at a debt of nearer 85k.

And sadly even in medicine jobs are no longer guaranteed at the end of it, certainly nothing particularly well paid for several years (I started out on less than 21k a year).

All this on top of a degree that doesn't allow for working in holidays (because there aren't any from year 3 onwards - it's all clinical placements, booked leave and minimum time off per year allowed) and I would have had serious second thoughts.

This is moving degree level education back into the realms of the rich only. Which is a great pity.

I think you can safely say all Russell Group Unis will charge full whack.....(and did the Government really think they wouldn't?)

On the positive side, I think a lot of students are going to consider going to uni abroad - the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland and Germany are looking attractive and even some US schools, particularly if you can get a scholarship.

We will let DS take whatever options he wants provided he does Maths, Further Maths, Physics and German at 'A'-level

technokitten you are SOOOO right

One of my best friends studied medicine (& I always planned to, but anyway)

After qualifying about 4 years ago he has worked is way through the system, a year as an H1, then an H2 etc etc... anyway this year (well aug / seo 2010) he couldnt find a post for the next level despite working all the hours god sent for bout 8 years, nighte etc, and often working 3 - 4 hours after his shift had finished etc. (seems normal for drs to do that)

anyway because of that he took a job in New Zeland and went over in Augast... 2 weeks before the 1st main earth quake... at which point he starts working 18+ hour days day in day out dealing with the casualtys from the earth quake and after shock.

When we calculated the hours he worked (rather than was paid for) I as a nanny was earning a fair bit more than a highly skilled dr.... its mad

and you dont need to be £80k + in debt to be a nanny!

Well, from my point of view, at the moment I'm paying £14000 a year nursery fees. £9000 for an education seems like a bargain to me.

good point annielobeseder

although i assume 3 meals a day 5 days a week are included in your nursery fees, as are the pens / paper / paints / books / toys etc

Adding on 15meals a week and the huge amount you need to spend on books (was always amazed at how expensive the books were, ranging from £15 for the thinnest paper back to £5+ for a thicker hardback) + the need to change printer and copying cards its probably still cheeper.

• at nursery you have a member of staff around for 50 hours a week...

at uni you are probably with a member of staff (shared between 100+ people rather than about 3) for umm... maybe 10 hours a week!

meant £50+