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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be really annoyed that my friend fiddling her tax credits

85 replies

cedar12 · 25/02/2011 16:09

She is getting £600 per month tax credits which she shouldnt be getting. She is telling them that her children are living with her mum, but she is living with her husband. Her argument is that they really need the money they really skint and have huge debts(due to her hugely over spending).
She stays at her mums a couple of nights a week but doesnt live there. Finding this really hard to get my head around especially as one of my friends has just been made redundant and is really struggling. She is a good friend in lots of ways just wish she would take responsibility for her finances. What should I do?

OP posts:

Original poster

cedar12 · 25/02/2011 16:41

I am sure she gets full working tax credit that ever that is. I thought she said £600 a month

OP posts:

QuelleLeJeff · 25/02/2011 16:42

So what does her husband earn a week?

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 25/02/2011 16:42

I'm trying to work out this £600 - as I have 3 children and don't get £600 a month Tax Credits, and if I were to start working I'd get a lot more than £600 a month TC's. If she only started claiming that this tax year and her previous years income was higher - then she would have been getting less

Original poster

cedar12 · 25/02/2011 16:43

I will look into how to do it thanks

OP posts:

QuelleLeJeff · 25/02/2011 16:44

Oh, it's all very confusing Baroque. I'm not sure if the OP may not have all the facts, or whether there is confusion between benefits or Tax Credits or what's going on.

I mean, some people might even think this is just another one of those sorts of threads. Some people might indeed.

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 25/02/2011 16:45

Full CTC presuming a low income the previous year and no disabilities etc for 3 children is £536 every 4 weeks.

If I were to get WTC by working 16hrs a week then I would get nearly £143 CTC and £73 WTC - which is an awful lot more than £600

JockTamsonsBairns · 25/02/2011 16:47

Why on earth would you want to shop one of your friends? Do you actually know her full circumstances? Apologies if I've read it wrong, but it sounds like you're not sure about her finances at all.

I just can't imagine bothering myself to this extent with what someone else is/isn't getting.

Sorry, I think YABU.

Original poster

cedar12 · 25/02/2011 16:47

I think she takes home about £1150 ish after tax she is claiming as a single person but I her husband is a plumber and works full time.

OP posts:

glasnost · 25/02/2011 16:47

Here we go. Another benefit fraud thread! They're quite regular on MN. Especially of a friday and are guaranteed to get knickers in a twist. I'd like to see more threads denouncing OPs' tax evading rich mates. Sigh.

FACTS: Welfare and tax credit fraud alone (NOT including error which would put the figure at £5.2 billion) costs the taxpayer £1.5 billion per year whereas tax evasion costs £15.2 billion per year.

It's then up to you what to do about your friend but put things into context first.

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 25/02/2011 16:50

so she's working, as is her DH? Are you sure she's not getting £600 WTC including the childcare element and is including her DH's income?

I know when exH and I were still together and both working we actually got a little bit more TC's because we were both working.

LisasCat · 25/02/2011 16:51

If you were to shop her, she would be given a caution, a fine and have to pay it all back, although they would negotiate a payment plan, rather than demand it as a lump sum. The caution remains on her record for 3 years during which time if she commits benefit fraud again she'll probably receive a custodial sentence, albeit a suspended one, owing to the children.

BuckBuckMcFate · 25/02/2011 16:51

YANBU to be annoyed.

I had a friend, probably would've classed her as my best friend.

She told me various things about their family income and the business that they own. It involved not paying tax, lying about how much the business made, claiming tax credits that they weren't entitled to.

I couldn't think of here in the same way after that and chose to end the friendship as I couldn't be friends with someone who had such different morals from me. I would've understood more if they had financial problems but that is not the case and was purely done from a greed perspective.

I didn't report her and I do still miss her company at times but would get so annoyed everytime she told me about her latest purchase (£30 pillowcases finished it for me!)

VerylazyBecsy · 25/02/2011 16:51

what glasnost said!! is it really worth all the heartache and hurt youll cause? why not suggest to her an alternative- like a financial advisor, or some sort of help for her spending problems?

doubleease · 25/02/2011 16:52

Surely if she's telling the TC people her children don't live with her, but live with her mum then she'd get less TC not more? Do you still get extra money if they don't live with you, Or am I confused?

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 25/02/2011 16:53

no you don't get extra tax credits if you children don't live with you - as you don't get the CTC part of it and WTC has quite a low threshold

JockTamsonsBairns · 25/02/2011 16:53

Good post - glasnost - my thoughts exactly.

Do people really know this level of detail about their friends' incomings?

clutteredup · 25/02/2011 16:55

glasnost I agree it's just as bad to evade tax too and I'd advise the same to someone who knew someone who was doing that too. Why is it bad to consider pepole who do either as anything other than thiefs and criminals. Why is it different from stealing from a shop or a bank or a person. Most pepole do things like abide by the law, why is it wrong to condemn those who don't?
Maybe I am naive but I don't see why it should be tolerated 'just because it's a bit of benefit fruad.' perhaps if more pepole were prepared to stand up for decency and honesty we would live in a better society, financial crisis or not.

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 25/02/2011 16:57

I'm always intrigued about the level of knowledge of peoples friends income too.
Perhaps the OP could give us her DH's income as well, and tell us whether the children are in after school/holiday clubs (I'm guessing at £1150 a month the OP's friend is working pretty much full time) too.

medicalmayhem · 25/02/2011 16:57

as the first reply said either get over it and try to support her as a friend or report her and get on with your life, i must admit i don't have much sympathy with people who get into debt because they cant control their greedy spending habits, i have worked since i left school often having 2 extra part time jobs as well as a full time one (b4 kids) and i have never bought it if i couldn't afford it or if it hasn't been a necessity, where do some people get the impression that they are entitled to all of these things that we feel we must have? if you cut away all the crap its suprising what you can survive on when you have to,

FabbyChic · 25/02/2011 16:57

It is not guaranteed she will get a caution, you are cautioned if you have received less than 2k in benefits that you should not ahve received.

Anything above 2k it does go to court.

glasnost · 25/02/2011 17:10

But clutteredup there are far more decent people at the bottom than the top. And please compare and contrast the figures. Tax evasion is 15 times higher than benefit fraud. That speaks for itself.

And I actually think it's worse to evade tax for the simple reason that the sums are vastly higher and incomparable and some benifit claimants may genuinely need those extra "fraudulent" benefits to survive whereas whoever evades tax does so purely out of greed.

I find it surprising that more people don't attempt benefit fraud when this government sets such bad examples by letting their rich banker friends evade huge amounts in tax. Barclays for example.

SugarSkyHigh · 25/02/2011 17:25

Could it be that your friend is not well? apparently there is a link between getting into debt and mental illness.

Aside from that, I think there are more important things for us all to worry about.

clutteredup · 25/02/2011 17:26

glasnost sorry you misunderstand me I am well aware of the awfulness of fraud at the top, with you all the way on the banker thing and agree that rich people not paying tax should be hung,drawn and quarterd in public, (OK you didn't go that far ) but I do agree with you. But I also feel its wrong to defraud the benefits the other end too. My friend I was referring to lives on the edge of a council estate and struggles big time as I said in spite of being honest, as I said too, she would be much better off if she were not so, all the more galling then when she is living up the road from people on benefits (legally claimed or not I have no idea) who afford to go on cruises ( again don't know where the money comes from - this is actually true) complain they want a bigger council house, same person, and others who sit outside their houses drinking all day when her DH works 7 days a week andthey still struggle. I agree that the system is one that would make you want to do it but it is still wrong. I am mainly angry on behalf of my friend when people so blatently lie and cheat (both ends of the scale - they too pay all of the tax they owe, not just the bit they can get away with and can't afford to pay people to help them to get out of paying it). You never hear her complaining at all, so I just want shout out on her behalf and all those like her who work so hard.
And bring back public hanging for those rich s*s who don't pay enough tax.

Niceguy2 · 25/02/2011 17:38

I'm not sure what your point is Glasnost. Are you suggesting as benefit fraud is (according to you) lower than tax evasion that its ok?

Because I'd report my tax cheating mate, just as easily as I'd report them if they were cheating their benefits.

Fraud is fraud. Whether you are rich or poor, does not make it any less illegal.

enjoyingthecalm · 25/02/2011 18:26

Glasnost, in quoting Barclays as an example you have shown that you're confusing tax evasion and tax avoidance.

Tax avoidance is legal and is what Barclays has done to legally minimise its tax liability. All large companies do what they can to legally minimise their tax liability and why not? Would you voluntarily pay more income tax than you needed to? Of course not.

Tax evasion is illegal, just as benefit fraud is illegal too. They are both serious financial crimes, neither of which should be excused just because one might be relatively small compared to the other.

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