to not understand the alck of empthy for people being made redundant from state services?

[ScramVonChubby]

OK so I get many agree with the redundancies but it is not about that really.

I mean empathy for the actual humans involved.

I keep hearing 'oh well they're state paid jobs, hard luck' and that's often followed by a rant about the numbers of unemployed.

Or people brushing off concerns because 'it's just managerial / abckroom people'.

Regardless, they are still humans who have bills and probably a family to support. Even if we have declared their post ended, cannot we feel some empathy for the individuals concerned? They are not people who deliberately harmed any economy but bang on average people in the main who went out, applied for an advertised job as one does, and got on with it like anyone else.

DH lost his job through redundancy from a private employer a while abck and I hate that others are going into this and being treated as some kind of pariahs on top. My own city is badly hit ATM (if you saw QT last night you know why) and I don't get the lack of compassion at all.

Yanbu, absolutely. People have always seen public/civil workers as another species to a degree.

YANBU

I have worked in both the public and private sectors.

A job's a job

The Tories have done a bang up job over the years smearing public sector workers as employed in non-jobs, giving 50%, raking in huge pensions on top of hige salaries (trust me, the majority of the tiny percentage who DO have big pension pots and salaries are NOT the ones being made redundant), and 'sponging' off the wealth creators. Lots of people fell for it.

YANBU

Can't say I've heard that anywhere tbh.

Yanbu, dds respite carer was also her teaching assistant at the autism unit in her old school. She has a degree, is dedicated and loves what she does, her job is pressured and demanding, she has the patience of a saint yet is facing huge pay cuts. Bumped into her in town recently, she burst into tears because she is seriously considering giving up the job she loves to work in Tescos, where she'd earn more simply because she cannot survive on £10,000 a year.

No doubt if she does school will replace her with somebody who thinks they know what they're doing, but probably doesn't.

The private sector went through hell a couple of years ago. Redundancies, shorter working weeks, unpaid holidays, pay-cuts, the works.

The public sector sat back and did nothing but sit in smug satisfaction about their job security and assume they were immune from the financial crisis.

One public servant I know on a variable mortgage declared it the best recession ever.

The public sector is only going through what the private sector has already been through. Of course it is a tragedy for the individuals involved, but there wasn't a great deal of sympathy when it was the other way round.

Bollocks.

Rubbish, it's the frontline staff who are going, the carers, cleaners etc. Smug they are not

YANBU. The number of people I've seen hurting and scared because of this is huge. There are an awful lot of lives and mortgages and so many other things affected. Also Barclays (I think) said they thought Public Sector ex employees would find it harder to find work as private sectors wouldn't employ them and that must be a huge worry.

I think BristolJim is talking crap. How do you know that the human beings working in the public sector didn't have sympathy for others losing their job? You can't make such sweeping statements based on experience of one or two smug individuals who would probably be that way wherever they worked.
I think the reason that there is a lack of sympathy is because too many people believe people like BristolJim and papers like the Daily Mail without actually engaging their brains.

Tis true that a local council will always cut services before it cuts its bureaucracy.

It's also true that there's no statutory obligation to provide rubbish collection, while there are countless obscure statutory requirements to promote equalities.

Cue binmen getting fired, while various types of outreach officer keep on earning 30K+ for doing something that has little or no visible impact and in most people's view is a lot less important than regular bin collections. This isn't about the Government necessarily being evil, but about an imbalance in what's regulated and what isn't.

people will always just the whole sector by the probably only one person the know who has it a bit cushy

the reality is that it is the frontline staff most affected. teaching assistants, healthcare workers anyone who works with children.

haven;t seen any chief execs taking a pay cut

I haven't heard to much about it but a dear friend of mine works for DWP and she has a had a hard time going back after maternity leave. I contacted our (Tory) MP and she got her hours cut and is back in on Monday.

I had a discussion with my dad about this the other day-about jobs being created just for the sake of people having jobs. His biggest bugbear was the JobCentre!

Keeping to the point though, be it a bin man or an outreach worker, it's hardly their fault that they applied for a job and got it is it? So why should that individual deserve any less sympathy than someone getting made redundant from any other job?

arseholes to you too BristolJim

One public servant I know on a variable mortgage declared it the best recession ever

says more about your choice of friends than anything

i've worked in public and private sector, nothing like that 3yr cycle of months of waiting to see if you're going to be pitched against your colleagues for a job to keep you smug

Peopel could always have empathy for others. It is certaily true that for 2 years the private sector with its worse pensions has had zero pay rises or much less than the average 3% public sector rises (I put the wage inflatino figures on another thread recently and was amazed there were any rises at all in the public sector over the last 2 yars when private sector people have been on 4 day weeks etc).

However however much we need the cuts yes everyone should sympathise with others in difficulties.

We ahd plenty of understanding from people from all walks of life when DH lost his job, in a sector very tied up to Governmental private enterprise initiatives. interestingly, BristolJim, in Bristol.

But I don;t care about why it's happening (well I do but not in this context)- just Mrx Y who is going tlose ehr home, or Mr D who is scared at 50 that he will never work again. Normal, boring human beings in a really scary palce who seem to be treated as if the deficit is their fault.

Cahritygirl interesting.

Ow orked briefly for VAT in 1995 - 1996 (FTA) and there were a fair few people in non jobs giving 50%: I worked for an FE college for a year later on and everyone else gave their best and a bit more on top.

Likewise private sector: worked in places where magazines were a must to get through a day of doing little, and palcecs where everyone really had to pull togetehr to amke it work, and did.

Can't see any differences.

I have not encountered a different level of empathy for public sector workers compared to private sector workers.

Like Crazy I haven't encountered any differences between the two. But then my husband who works in private sector and has twice lost his job within the last year. I have sympathy equally for anyone losing their jobs

I am a civilan police staff and previously having worked in the private sector for 9 years. there is a distinct line of bash the public sector being given out by the tories at the moment. believe me the majority of public sector workers are not on hugh salaries or huge pensions. its the top management level that are on this and sadly they are not the ones that are being made redundant or moved especially within my force.

I've had experience of both. I've worked in a Borough Council and run out of work by the middle of each week (soul destroying!). I've worked in a Local Education Authority and willingly worked my socks off among people doing the same. I've worked in private sector and been too busy to think. I've also worked in the private sector in a company where everyone seemed hell bent on work avoidance.

We'll soon see the impact of some of these cuts, and the cuts in school budgets that are to be phased in over the next three years.

Just wondering where the average 3% public sector pay rise figure is coming from - Dh, in one area of the public sector, has had a pay freeze since 2009 and it's ongoing, and on top of 0.5% last year in another PS job I'm getting a huge 0.4% this year - with underlying threats about how our pay rise makes future compulsory redundancies more likely. I don't question the average, but I don't think it represents the pay situation of most public sector workers over the last few years.
As many of my friends work in the public or voluntary sector I've not experienced anyone being dismissive about the possibility we may all lose our jobs, but I have definitely noticed a clear demonisation of public sector workers in the media in the last six months. If I hear once more the phrase "backroom staff", like there are large hoards of staff sitting in council offices drinking coffee or "gold plated pensions" - incidentally I have paid an average of £150 a month for the last 25 years for mine and it's not going to be even plastic coated by the time this government has finished - I will scream.

I could find my other thread. It was a 2010 study i found which said 3% pay rises in the public sector and 2% in private sector.

The trouble is the bottom line is because of Brown or whoever you want to blame and the reasons don't matter as we are where we are we are nearly bankrupt and you can't pay out what you don't have so Labour proposed 20% cut backs and the coaltion has gone for 25% -0 massive pain whatever party is in. All of us who manage our money know you can't spend what you don't haev but the Government did and look at the mess they created. Now with pain all round we're having to deal with it. The double dip bit will be this year as I think a lot of the public sector redundancy notices went out just before Christmas (nice) which require 3 months of consultation.

Still masses of waste in some bits though - we noticed our local library shut down and fenced off - fair enough - there are about 4 in 10 minutes drive from here..... then next thing my daughter sees very expensive huge refurbishment of it going on - totally unnecesssary - it was in a great state. Loads of local building works on bits of road or pavemenet which don't need changing. You get the feeling they feel there is money in the budget and if it's not spend they will spend it but a lot of it is totally not needed.

I work in the public sector and can tell you that in my particular bit:

1. We have had our pay frozen for the past two years, and can't see any prospect of a pay increase in the next three at least. Some staff have had a pay rise, this is because the freeze is only for those earning over £21K a year. All Admin Officer and Admin Assistants (the guys behind the counter in the dole office/social security office, most of the people checking to see if you are bringing drugs or illegal immigrants into the country etc)earn less than £21K a year unless they get a shift allowance for working at 3 am etc.
2. The majority of these staff with families are what are described as "the working poor" on tax credits and housing benefit with an average pension prospect of £4000 per year. Not gold plated pension for sitting on tour backside in a cushy office by any means.
3. We have to make 20% cuts in staff over the next four years. We had our potential notices of redundancy about a month ago- yes, by e-mail (still hopeful that voluntary redundancy and early retirement will take up the first two years worth so not desperate yet ).
4. Every single job that is going is from the front line. The front line that is there to serve the general public whether they are unemployed, self-employed, private sector workers, disabled, sahm or whatever you are. These cuts are job losses to human beings, on low salaries who are providing a service to everyone else.