To want to 'dob in' my local music services?

[oxcat1]

I'm hoping I've never said anything to give away my location but....

.... I am really pissed off that my local county music services only ever uses photocopies of music for its choirs. If they were just giving the kids photocopies but they had a full set of originals 'back stage', as it were, fair enough, but I now know for a fact that they only ever buy one copy of a piece abd then photocopy it 70+ times, year on year.

I know this is illegal, but surely it's also deeply immoral, abd passing on very much the wrong message to the kids. I can't quite bring myself to telephone the relevant authorities - times are hard, guv'nor - but then times are also hard for the many musicians/editors/printers etc that they're depriving of vital sales.

Grrrrr. Rant over.

are you SURE?? that sounds most odd for an "official" musical organisation to be routinely doing that.

are you sure they dont send photocopies home to learn and use the "real stuff" in concerts?

how can any of the companies they buy from not have twigged?

Perhaps they pay an enhanced amount to be able to do so? In schools you can do with certain things to allow for photocopying.

yes I imagine that there is a similar arrangement as NN has said

There may be nothing to "dob in".

I am part of a local film club. We pay a licence fee (£100 per film) to be allowed to show DVDs. They are the same as domestic DVDs so show the same "you are only allowed to show this at home" text even though we have paid and are 100% legitimate. We usually remember to explain this to the audience, but not always.

For example, look at this licence here for worship music:
www.ccli.co.uk/licences/schools_photocopying.cfm

I think you need better things to worry about tbh!

I agree with bogeyface.

YABU

Seeing as lots of local music services are facing cuts from Local Government and are laying off teachers and admin staff maybe they probably won't be able to afford to pay fines for copyright issues. I'd worry about other things really, how about whether there will be any staff to teach and organise these concerts/events, and that you are currently lucky to have a music service?

If an original has been purchased teachers can copy for educational purposes ie for their students. Anyone can copy if the copyright has expired.

Why does it upset you so much?

Are they using music you composed and you're missing out on royalties?

They probably have a licence to be able to do it OP. And can you imagine how many of those p/c get lost every time they're given out? It would be madness to give out the originals. Get a grip woman!

I do indeed know how much that music costs, and the reason it pisses me off is for exactly the reasons outlined above: DH is a professional musician (although not a composer!), and we have many friends who do try to make a living out of composing, type-setting, editing and printing music.

You can get a licence to photocopy music, as referred to above, but it only actually applies to a very, very small amount of music, usually worship songs and that mind of thing, as covered by the remit of the licence.

The Internet is awash with music you can download and perform for free: look at the Choral Public Domain Library for evidence; everything from plainsong to contemporary works put online because they are out of copyright or their composer is happy for them to be freely downloaded and performed.

It is stealing, and I know money is tight - as it is for all the individuals being denied their livelihood by this sort of behaviour- but surely stealing/breaking the law should never be condoned, however tight the budget?

Seriously, get a life. Why bother yourself with someone elses business? Are you really that mean as to deprive people of this club for your own twisted, if not perverse satisfaction of dobbing then in it.

P.s. I agree that it is only right to send out photocopies to the kids to learn from, but they can only do that if A) they have the same number (or more!) of the genuine copies, b) the two sets (originals and photocopies) are not used together, c) the photocopies are all collected in again at the end of the concert/rehearsal period.

CoffeeDodger: I don't think you're correct re photocopies, unless rhe music is covered by a licence (such as CCL) or it is one of those 'buy one, photocopy as many as you need' copies, such as some if the newer RSCM publications. You couldn't, for example, buy one copy of a piece by John Rutter/Bob Chilcott or a new edition of Stanford and photocopy it legally, even for use within your choir.

I wouldn't get any satisfaction, perverse or otherwise, which is why I haven't done so, but aren't I entitled to worry about something illegal that directly impacts on the livelihoods of my friends and family?

actually oxcat1 - that's not stritly true about Rutter etc. Some of Rutters stuff just needs the relevant bit shoved on the end of the copies (For the Beauty of the Earth is one of them I know of)

Plus the MRL allows for photocpying of various song music/words from other publications too.

YOu can also add songs to the CCLI/MRL reports at the end of each year which are not included in their vast list of music - and iether they'll be included in the extra cost or you get billed a bit extra

although I don't understand why the county music choir couldn't borrow copies of the music they want from elsewhere? Unless they're singing really obscure things surely there must be libraries (I got 50 copies of Jerusalem Joy from the Country Library years back), other music services, other choirs even, or schools that have the music and would lend it out?

I left it really really late to get thos Jersualem Joy copies (About 2 weeks before I needed them ) - but I'm should imagine the county choir plans rather better than we at church do

Interesting, Baroque.

Re, borrowing, that is exactly what has puzzled me, and part of what drew my attention to this. I'm involved with a couple of other choirs avd they have sometimes asked to borrow music: but just the one copy. I once asked, did they not need more, for all the singers, but was cheerily told they'd just photocopy from my original.
I know many libraries still have great stocks of choral music - Wakefield is brilliant, for example- so borrowing from there woild be so very much better, on so many levels.

that is really odd - aside from the obvious copyright issues if any licences they may (or may not!) hold cover some of the photocopying - surely it makes much more sense, both from a practical and financial^ point of view to just borrow the extra copies.

I know I'd much rather go and lug a box of books along with me than stand and photocopy/collate 70 copies of something that is almost certainly going to be more than 2 sides long.

The cost of the copying, and the time taken (goodness it takes me 1/2 or so just to do 60 double sided single a4 newsletters for church each week!) much be crazy - when they could just borrow it.

Do they use well known choral music or children's songs such as voiceworks, songscape, Lynn Marsh etc etc. If the latter then purchasing the book allows you to make photocopies.

YANBU. How many people on here would be happy if someone was using their work for free when they should be receiving some income for it?