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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this company's policy is unfair

29 replies

ButterflySally · 21/02/2011 17:14

This is the first thread I have ever started in AIBU and am a little nervous at the response I'll get...but here goes.

DP and I joined a gym awhile ago. We cancelled our membership in Jan 2010.

I have just found out today that, since then, we have been paying around £80 a month since in standing orders (totally just over £1000 over 13 months).

My partner set up the membership and cancelled it and it was his account that the money was coming out of. I can't believe he didn't cancel the standing order and am absolutely furious with him for not noticing!!

I called the gym and enquired whether we would get a refund for over-payment. They said no. They also said that all their documentation states that it is the consumer's responsibility to cancel standing orders.

I accept that it was my DP's fault for not cancelling the standing order and not noticing the payments and can see their point of view that it is in all their documentation. However, I can't help thinking that this policy is unfair. We have, in effect, paid just over £1000 for services we have not received (they told me the 'paid to' date on our account was up until Jan 2010 so this money hasn't been credited to our account at all).

AIBU to think this policy is unfair?

OP posts:
Original poster
ButterflySally · 21/02/2011 17:15

Sorry *totalling

OP posts:
FabbyChic · 21/02/2011 17:15

To be honest who does not cancel standing orders when they cancel a service? Is this the first time you have looked at your bank statements?

Seems you have more money than sense.

FabbyChic · 21/02/2011 17:16

You could try the direct debit indemnity scheme see your bank they may be able to recall all the payments.

MorticiaAddams · 21/02/2011 17:17

Was it definitely standing order and not direct debit? Most companies tend to use direct debit.

BeenBeta · 21/02/2011 17:17

It may be your responsibility to cancel standing orders but if they accepted your cancellation, cancelled your entry card, etc, then they cannot just keep your money.

I would contact your local trading standards office.

Lulumaam · 21/02/2011 17:18

it's pretty much standard that the onus is on you to cancel the DD or SO as the gym can't go to the bank on your behalf.

as a goodwill gesture it would be nice for them to refund you some money, but they are not obliged to

Heroine · 21/02/2011 17:19

If you have cancelled the agreement, and this has been accepted by the company, then you don't have a contract, and they should return the money. This is an admin error rather than a contractual tie-in, so request a bit, then small claims court them for the total if they don't play ball.

slhilly · 21/02/2011 17:21

It sounds like you're getting quasi-legal advice. I think you ought to contact CAB or trading standards to clarify where you actually legally stand.

HecateQueenOfWitches · 21/02/2011 17:21

A standing order is not a direct debit.

It is a payment you have set up to automatically go from your bank into an account number you have provided.

The gym has not DDd the money from your account, you set your account up to give it to them!

Having said that, it is clear that it was an oversight on your part, since they have the record of you cancelling membership and the fact you obviously haven't used the facilities.

Maybe you could ask the CAB or someone to request a refund?

Or perhaps you could see a solicitor and see if there's some law or other which means that if something can clearly and reasonably be seen to be an error, that the recipiant has a duty to act?

FabbyChic · 21/02/2011 17:24

STopping a standing order/direct debit is down to the payer. The OP did not stop it, how is the bank supposed to know.

I doubt it is a standing order, more than likely a direct debit, if it is she can get them all back, go into the bank complete a form hey presto cash back in less than 48 hours.

Northernlurker · 21/02/2011 17:27

I can't believe you haven't noticed £80 a month!

If they haven't credited the payment to your account though I think you are justified in asking where it's gone. Either you were paying for a service (and if you din't know and didn't use it then that's just tough) or you shouldn't have been paying at all - they can't take the money and say your account was closed iyswim

Which gym was this anyway?

BooyFuckingHoo · 21/02/2011 17:29

your own fault. do you hoenstly think a company is going to take responsibility for checking with each individual customer that they have cencelled tehir SO or DD? it is up to teh account holder to ensure it is caneclled.

BooyFuckingHoo · 21/02/2011 17:31

i promise i will learn to type one day! Blush

trixie123 · 21/02/2011 17:34

The OP has acknowledged that the fault lies with them - the issue is whether the gym should have kept accepting the money. They are quick enough to pounce on anyone who underpays. Given that the gov is claiming back certain benefits it accidentally overpaid I don't see why the OP shouldn't be entitled to some of it at least.

BooyFuckingHoo · 21/02/2011 17:37

the gym were most liely unaware that they were receiving money from an account no longer held with them. the person who took the cancellation is very unlikely to be the same person who does the accounts. tehy dont indivually check each received payment into tehir account you know. tehy get hundreds of DDs into the one account every month.

TattyDevine · 21/02/2011 17:42

I think its highly likely the gym knew they were being paid. They are highly likely to have an accountant who sorts out their half yearly returns etc.

Obviously "fault" lies with the OP but it doesn't mean the gym doesn't have an obligation and I suggest you get legal advice.

Consumer Direct first, they are basically trading standards, they might be able to forward you onto someone else. Small claims court to recover lost monies - you have nothing to lose in trying (I dont think - someone correct me if I'm wrong)

You should TRY and get this money back if you can, fault or otherwise. When Tax Credits overpay people, they manage to get it back - that must be legal? Surely it goes both ways? Check it out.

KatieMiddleton · 21/02/2011 17:44

They should give you the money back. The bank will not get involved (quite rightly) if you gave the instruction, they actioned it correctly and then you failed to cancel it but the gym should refund you. It's not their money to keep.

I would write to them asking for your money back and give a deadline to receive it, such as 30 days. If you don't receive the money then you will claim through the small claims court (I assume you are in England/Wales).

If this gym is part of a chain I would write to the complaints department.

HecateQueenOfWitches · 21/02/2011 17:51

Oh, the gym would have known. They have to do reconcilliations and all that. They knew.

FabbyChic · 21/02/2011 17:56

The bank will get involved if it was a direct debit. I did not cancel my direct debit to Virgin, on ringing them they told me to recall the payment from the bank as I should have cancelled the direct debit.

I went in the bank and they recalled the payment and it was back in my account within 24 hours.

cocoachannel · 21/02/2011 18:00

Depending on the size of the gym chain they will know through bank reconciliations that they are in receipt of £x from cancelled accounts but not take the time to analyse individual overpayments. Why would they?

That's not to say a goodwill gesture isn't worth trying for. I'd be very tempted to name and shame, unleashing the power of Mumsnet..! Wink

NoSuchThingAsSociety · 21/02/2011 18:05

Tough titties, alas.

TattyDevine · 21/02/2011 18:06

See I'm of the view that there is nothing "goodwill" about giving an overpayment back - its the right thing to do.

Those families who got overpaid tax credits didn't do it out of the good will bursting from their pure hearts. They had to!

Therefore I would clarify your legal stance - I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure if your employer, for instance, overpays you you can be in trouble for not paying it back and all sorts. I'm sure there is a clear cut legal position on this. I'm really hoping its on your side! I might go a googling...

cocoachannel · 21/02/2011 18:07

As a related aside, by way of warning to others...

I recently cancelled my Fitness First membership when I left work for maternity leave. I instructed my bank to stop the direct debit and made sure I was in receipt of a cancellation letter from the branch of FF I was leaving, just in case. When the DD failed the following month, FF's head office took my monthly payment from my bank account using the debit card details they had taken when I paid my joining fee!! They did refund the money pretty quickly, but it took three or four phone calls. I was really cross.

MrMayoNessie · 21/02/2011 18:07

You would assume that if an account reference was now classed as closed/cancelled then this would create an exception report for the accounts department to follow up as the money wouldnt be able to be allocated anywhere.
I agree that as long as he did cancel the agreement with the gym (bear in mind he didnt cancel the dd/Sorder (have they confirmed that they received written request), if so then I would expect they should refund all the money back.

Original poster
ButterflySally · 21/02/2011 18:15

It was a standing order so we won't have DD-guarantee protection. I was surprised it was standing order - usually companies use DD. I find it interesting in retrospect that standing order was the only payment option Hmm

Thanks for all the useful suggestions. I called Consumer Direct and they have referred it to Trading Standards due to the length of time involved in the over-payment. They advised me to write to the gym and if that doesn't resolve things, to get back in contact with them. I have drafted a polite letter which I will send in the next couple of days.

I know it was my DP's fault for not cancelling the SO (and believe me, I can't believe he didn't cancel it and didn't notice!!) but I still can't believe a company are allowed to passively take that much money for nothing.

The gym said our 'right of entry' to the gym ceased in Jan 2010 so DP definitely closed the account.

I won't name the gym but it is not a large chain. It is a small one with only two branches.

OP posts: