..to think my family holiday shouldn't be hijacked by my BIL?...LONG alert!

[erebus]

This is just the need to rant.

DH is Australian. We (he, I, the DSs, 9 and 11) are taking our first hol to Oz since coming to the UK 7 years ago this Easter.

We have 2 days in Singapore, 2 days only in Sydney (slight booking cock up on the part of DH, which I didn't spot either!) then 11 days in then out of Brisbane, then 4 days in Cairns.

The BNE bit is to be a look around where we were based, show the boys around, catch up with old friends. BIL lives 3 hours north in a small, one horse town, where DH grew up (and left at 17...)

I don't get on well with BIL who is 8 years older than DH. I think he is a country oik with country ideas; he has never held down an adult relationship with a woman in his 58 years, he has never left the family home (parents died 10 years ago) YET there are few aspects of our lives he is not an expert about. DH chose to come and live in the UK. He likes it here, but because BIL cannot fathom why anyone would want to live anywhere else other than small town outback Australia, therefore it is to be understood that it is my 'fault' we no longer live in Oz.

BIL has been to visit us here in the UK twice. He spends 4 weeks slumped on our sofa watching 'Rex Hunt Fishing Adventures' (Oz fishing show) on Sky, making increasingly pointed 'asides' to me about why ANYONE would want to live in the UK? Sooner or later he and I fall out a bit. Never a row, just terse words and a difficult atmosphere.

DH has been taught all his life that his family (read: mother) are/were Central to everything, hence BIL never leaving home. Dissent was never allowed, a thing that still means DH has trouble with conflict today. He therefore has never plucked up the courage to tell BIL where the boundaries are. He just wants BIL and I to get on (which I would far better if he didn't see fit to comment on a) our relationship, b) our choice of living arrangements, c) our parenting, d) everything about the UK). But it isn't me who stirs things up! I don't give a toss what he thinks about us, it's just that I choose not to spend any more time with him than is strictly necessary. If he were just my kitchen fitter, I'd pass a polite half hour with him over a cup of tea as he gradually ranged into casual racism, we'd tacitly accept that we come from different walks of life, that would be that. DH knows how I feel (cos I told him!) though we don't, of course, actually discuss it but I have made my feelings clear, reminding DH that BIL and I will experience conflict sooner or later therefore expressing my wish to keep our holiday contact in short bursts, not one long slog. Whilst appreciating the familial responsibility of spending time with BIL....

So you can imagine my feelings when our time with him went from being staying with him for 4 or 5 days (one horse town, 2 sons, really expensive holiday, remember!) plus him coming to Cairns with us to him NOW spending all 11 days of the BNE bit with us PLUS Cairns. 16 days out of the 21 of the whole holiday.

He wanted to spend 'a day' with us on the Gold Coast (4 hours south of one-horse-town) to go to a 'light horse' show (£62 a head, yawn) with us, OK fair enough- so why has DH booked for him to stay in the same hotel as us for all 4 nights - following last night's weekly Skype with him? (And incidentally, thus far, paid for it? BIL is rolling, given that he inherited the family home and has never had to support a family). I can imagine the scenario, BIL would have casually mentioned that he 'wouldn't mind some time on the GC' so suddenly, all 4 days.

Sorry for all that, rant over, but I just knew that DH would somehow allow BIL- or not succeed in preventing him!- to invade every area of this holiday. I was wondering why the normally taciturn DH was being very friendly and chatty with me this morning, now I know why! He knows how I would react when I saw the hotel booking on line when I came downstairs (long rant on MN?! ). Now I will have to fit in around BIL, keep the boys on a higher standard of behaviour both when bored in One-horse-town and when wanting to go to the theme parks on the Gold Coast, at our own pace.

Rather pissed off.

If your husband wants to spend all his holiday with his brother and is happy to piss you off (his behaviour is very selfish, passive blokes can be selfish too, he is prioritising his brothers desires over yours which suggests he'd rather be with his brother) then I suggest you and the kids plan your days and leave them to it.
Get husband to clarigy with his brother who pays for what as well. You don't "have" to pay for his food.
People I know with Oz husbands say the Oz trips are never a holiday though and tend to dread them.

Nothing against Oz in my last post, just Oz trips if you have an Oz husband are all about rellie visiting and as much fun as rellie visiting in the UK.

Much good advice, thanks all!

I will be having words with DH tonight (he hasn't messaged me all day- he knows he's in trubs!).

I am more than irritated that I specifically risked rocking the family boat a fortnight ago spelling out the fact that it wouldn't be a good idea for BIL and I to spend large tracts of time together because, sooner or later, when DH was out of ear-shot (note!), I'd get quietly taken aside by BIL to be reminded, casually as you like, that I knew DH and the family would be better off back in Oz and that DH was only in the UK to humour me!

DH chose to come to the UK- originally for a year, which segued into 7 as a) DH got a good job, b) DH likes real ale and country footpaths, c) the only grandparents are here, and d) the DSs are getting a better education than they would where we were in Oz!

If DH decided he really, really wanted to return to Oz (though never 'small town'!), I, reasonably, would demand he found a job paying a living wage before we returned but I'd go.

2rebecca- I get where you're coming from but the reality for DH is that all his family live in that small town, most spend much of their time back-stabbing the others as they've ALL managed to fall out with each other, living in the small town environment that they do!

DH won't worry at all if BIL is the only rellie we see!

Just make sure you don't acept more time with him than you need. it's his brother, his expense, his time. You do what you choose. When BIL comes over for a quiet word to berate you ostentatiously switch on your phone recording device and say - do you mind if I record this or just walk away and say hang on mate - say that to your brother but not to me. Or tell him what a loser he is never to have left home, never to have married and be coming up to 60 without children and nothing in his lfie and he should shift the plank from his own eye before criticising others. or just walk away.

lol, xenia I can only really THINK that really loudly! I will definitely say, this time around, having allowed it to happen twice over 7 years, 'Look, we're not going to have this conversation, you know where we stand on this, give it a rest. All you cause is irritation, it won't get us on the next plane out of Heathrow. Get over it'.

Why can you only think those things? Seems to me that if BIL only thought what he thinks then you wouldn't have to do more than that yourself. However, he sees fit to say what he thinks and I think you should follow his lead.

You and BIL get on as far as politeness, so what's to lose by getting your DH to say 'sorry, we need time to do loads of other things because erebus has booked to see her friends, too? What does it matter if you are painted as the culprit (of some non-existent crime)? Or YOU get onto Skype and say 'we'll be seeing you on these dates, but sorry, can't fit more because I have promised the boys this that and the other and we are visiting friends of mine'.

To some extent you AND your DH are throwing your hands in the air.

Yes, it comes over as very very passive as if the BIL totally controls you both. It's weird. Just say no, sorry but we can see you on X days.

Deoilycart (love the name!) and xenia. You are both v. correct.

I have decided that my approach will be 'firm but fair'. I am going to 'go with the flow' only insofar as it works for my family.

There is an UPDATE, UPDATE, UPDATE. BIL is coming down the GC with a friend (and believe me, she IS only 'a friend'!). DH met her a couple of years ago when he went over to Oz to sell our old house (2 manic weeks with his DB). She is a fair bit older than BIL but DH says she is 'nice'. This might be a huge way out for, well, me!

So what I will be doing, every morning, is an 'itinerary check'. 'THIS is what The Erebuses are doing today' (it won't come as a shock, I will have outlined our plans, based on the weather!)- 'WHAT about you?' Or 'youse', I should perhaps say, given at least one of the audience (the inner bitch has reared her head!) uses that term as a plural of 'you'.... 'OK, based on that, will we meet back at our/your apartment at 6pm? Can you, seeing as you're 'mooching' all day, nip to the supermarket and get this?'

I completely understand OP. I have an Aussie FIL who describes our Uk city home as
'the arse end of the world'
Probably comes from same country town -Lol
I have same problem with visits to oz, I want to (selfishly but honestly) want to spend time with family and friends in my oz home town (large city) not in some country town seven hours away that shuts down at midday on weekend (unless you want the pub of course)

Oh I know what Aussie/NZ country oik folk are like :) Just console yourself with the fact that underneath it all a lot of it is insecurity from being so sheltered and feeling defensive to the extreme that OZ/NZ is the best country in the world don't you know

Oi! Don't drag NZ into this!

OP - I know exactly what you mean about country oiks. My family have turned into them while I have been in the UK.

The horse show is quite good from what I have been told. Lots of horse riding action etc..think Man from Snowy River like they did at the ekka a few years ago (if that makes sense to you).

Where is your OP from? Gympie?

I would suggest to your DH that he makes suggestions to your BIL that he may not like tagging along or that as he will be sharing the holiday he pays half of it!!!

p.s can you bring me some shreddies please

PMSL at this thread

I feel (and share) your pain if my MIL wasn't married I'd suggest she gets together with your BIL

You sum up some people so well just tell me please are you an Aussie?

(I'm thinking you can't be you have too much insight!!)

YANBU OP I completely sympathise and understand with everything you have said.

I returned from living in Oz for 8 years, last year. I went over there on my own with my DS who was 5 at the time.

Came back and am now with DP in the UK (we're both English) who I have known since I was 15 (I'm 40 now).

He would love to go and live in Oz!! Me? I don't think I can bear to . His brother lives over there too, on the Gold Coast. DP's DB moved over there 10 years ago.

As lovely as the country is, I know exactly what every other poster has said on here about the country folk and it's not being insulting to them, because it's true, they are very small and narrow minded. It's just the way they are.

We've just been on Skype talking to DP's DB and they're teasing me about not wanting to go back.

I'm 25wks pg with mine and DP's first baby...how long can I hold out? I wonder

OP - I sympathise. Unless BL is totally unreliable, this is what I would do. Get him to show your children a bloody good time. Put the onus on HIM to show you all the best of Australia.

Libra, well there's the excuse fact that you simply can't fly while preggers you'd be far too airsick. Then flying with a little one is a rubbish idea, you'd never be able to carry anough bottles to last the whole day-long flight and breastfeeding in a seat 15 inches wide would be almost impossible. Of course the bottles/breastfeeding will all be over around a year old, but alas, still no trip to Aus for you as little one will be in nappies. How does ones Austrailian family propose one chages a shitty arse in an airline seat? We also have to consider that deep vein thrombosis that runs in your family, had you forgotten? And the heat fits, it sucks when your kids fit in high temperatures, you can't go anyway warmer than Devon ever. They can be a problem till child is five. After that though, would you really want to mess up thier hectic schedual of school and extra-curricular activities?

Utterly gleeful terribly sorry Libra but I can't see you managing a trip down under again much before the youngest starts Uni.

My DH is an Aussie too and I can't ABIDE some of his relations...his mates are fine usually but a couple of his cousns are simply unfathomable to me.

I know what you mean about the sexist small town bollocks too...and sadl the racism. THese were why I wouldn't live in Oz.

I think you'll have to go out shopping on every single day of those 4 days...go to the spa whatever...have a GOOD time yourself and leave them to their Aussie antics.

LibraPoppy....you hold out for as long as you want. I have been where you are now...been there ome back felt the pressure to return...not on your nelly mate!

I'm here. Where I belong and I aint going back there for a million!

Lol at 'youse'. That alone would be enough to find me taking off with the DC's to the theme parks!

Yep, another Aussie here who knows exactly what you mean by country oiks.

A very dear friend of mine is quite camp and grew up in a small country town in NSW. I asked him once how it was growing up gay in the country. He said well, everyone knew I was gay, they just didn't know I fucked men.

Really, that's the level of sophistication we're talking about.

PMSL at Ninedragons!!!

love Xenias idea about recording the convo.