AIBU to refuse to do volunteering/unpaid internships/big society shit to get a job?

[underneaththelimetree]

I have a phd (biology area ) and have done volunteering in the past. I cant even get a paid internship as there's so many other people that have just been kicked out of a job in the same area of work/ done 1y+ of volunteering to get that specific job.

I dont want to stay in academia, it's not practical for most women and the vast majority of phd female friends are dropping out after theyve finished (but this is another rant topic).

Ive volunteered in the past, have a good c.v.and i really cant afford to volunteer for months on end without a job. My confidence is low and im wondering why i ever did a stupid phd in the first place. Im now mid/late 20s with nothing to show for it and no career at all. To make things worse there are no jobs in the public sector, where i think i could make a massive difference to conservation research.

I just feel like im getting nowhere and nothing will change unless the tories simultaneously suffer from sudden adult death syndrome the economy recovers

gggrrrrrrrrrr AIBU/ WWYD?

Conservation is highly competitive for jobs that pay very poorly. There are enough people who want to do it for love, so it's always been that way. Add to that the fact that the current climate is forcing the charities and councils to lay off staff ... you are in a tough situation.

There are some private sector roles, but experience counts for everything. My firm (major utility) recently advertised for a biodiversity surveyor and had more than 200 applicants. Six were interviewed and all very excellent candidates.

Could you do any other job during the week and keep up the conservation volunteering at weekends? It really is the best way in. You get the experience and know the right people to find out when the vacancies do arise. Local Wildlife Trust is the best place to start. Also do BTCV course if you can to add to your skills.

Good luck!

Well, it's a competitive market out there at the moment. I'm fairly well qualified (maths degree) and am having to volunteer at the moment in order to qualify as a TA. I would like (eventually) to be a primary school teacher but accept that I need to get time in the field in order to get on a GTP programme or a PGCE... which are both very competitive courses to gain places on.

I'm lucky in a way 'cos I'm employed by my placement school as a lunchtime supervisor...so I am at least earning a little bit of money. But it does amuse me sometimes that I'm probably the best qualified dinner lady in the world!!

It's great having academic qualifications, but if there is a particular field that you want to get into then sometimes you have to put the ego to one side and start from the very bottom. If you can get your foot in the door, show willing and demonstrate capability then that can only be a good thing. There won't be a job for me at my placement school (due to budget cuts) but the stuff I can now put on my CV is invaluable.

yes EcoLady- you describe precisely my problem- i would gladly try to get a job in another sector but where would i start???

i just cannot get a private sector job- its impossible!! someone told me recently they went for an interview and the person who got the job had volunteered with a private company for 2.5 years!!! That is just crazy.

OP... have you looked into 'Groundwork Trust' organisations? They may have some openings near you or perhaps they could point you in another direction?

thanks LyingWitchInTheWardrobe ill take a look- thanks to all posters actually (even ones saying IABU- it's all useful - a good kick up the bum works wonders :) )

If you are serious about wanting to get out of academia, why don't you look for a B to B sales job in a company where your science/biology background would be relevant (even if it isn't a pre-requisite for a sales job). You will learn a lot about business that way, if you put your mind to it, and if you are any good at sales, you will make enough money to house yourself and you should get transport through your job.

To be fair there are very few jobs in academia at the moment - and even there, with a PhD you would have to start at the bottom and work up.

Do you have preschool children? I can understand your reluctance if so because the childcare costs would be high and you would be earning nothing.

no i dont have any children and i appreciate that it is 1000 times harder for people that do-
the only thing that is holding me back from full-time volunteering (apart from expense) is that i feel like my life is ebbing away without me doing something useful. i have no pension, no NI contributions as yet etc.

At this rate i wont be able to afford to have children until im 35 and then ill be risking infertility. i wish i was a man.

If you get into the 'long term unemployed' (usually around nine months) category you wil be required to do something, if you are clainming benefits. And rightly so.

future jobs fund and community task foce have been fantastic in terms of getting those who have not been able to find a job into a more active lifestyle and the success figures in terms of participants actually getting work are better than with just JCP intervention.

dont qualify for future jobs fund or community task force they are for YOUNG people. why oh why did i do a phd?

hi underneaththelimetree - i am in exactly the same position. Mid twenties, biology PhD, not overly practical to stay in academia as a woman, no jobs anywhere anyway!

have you tried boston consulting/mckinsey consulting? one of our graduates went there recently

"no i dont have any children and i appreciate that it is 1000 times harder for people that do-
the only thing that is holding me back from full-time volunteering (apart from expense) is that i feel like my life is ebbing away without me doing something useful. i have no pension, no NI contributions as yet etc.

At this rate i wont be able to afford to have children until im 35 and then ill be risking infertility. i wish i was a man."

If there are no jobs then there are no jobs - makes no difference if you are a man or a woman!!

Surely you must have researched career prospects before you started your PhD? I have a sister who is in the middle of a history doctorate... she is only doing her PhD because she is so good that (a)she has full funding from the arts council and (b) there is a job there for her at the end of it.

I know it must be galling to have a PhD and no job in your chosen field, but sadly that's life. Opportunity never comes knocking, you have to get out there and make your own breaks. And be thankful that you aren't trying to establish a career/get a job whilst being a parent....'tis a while different ball game.

whole, not while!!

to be clear- i said 'i wish i was a man' only because i could then have a better chance of establishing a really good career before i became infertile.

i did research academia but it was four years ago and back then i did not then appreciate how impractical it would be to have 1-3 year short term contracts for years until you can get a lectureship AND have children at the same time- by taking time out to have a baby in between contracts you would be lucky to get another job afterwards. It's world of publish regularly or fail.

ill have a look at that whiteflame, thanks :) and good luck to you!!

I was using fjf and ctf as examples of good practice. The new work programme is likely to broaden it's net to cover older people. Was making the point that yes it is worth doing something rather than nothing.

Incidentally fjf is broadened out to over 25 yo in some
areas.

yep i agree hairylights better to do something rather than nothing!

underneath - in your position then, with no children I would do something like

• Part time job anywhere (Tesco etc) to pay the bills

Then if you do want to go into academia (and it can be done with children) then

• Part time honorary postdoc wherever you can (the more prestigious the better) researching something directly for what you want.

Or if you dont voluntary work in the area you really really want to go into for a bit.

Personally I think that would make a huge difference and boost your CV. A short period of that would reap dividends I think. If you are 27 ish (?) then you have plenty of time to do this and have children in your early 30's.

thanks peppa- good advice

• i feel guilty about taking your time everyone, esp as other people are finding it a lot more difficult than me- i just needed a massive rant!!!

Conservation work is very highly sought after, and not very well paid. And, as you say, you are up against people with more experience of the job, and the same level of qualifications. I agree with people who've said that you need to start looking at other fields like scientific sales, rural planning, and so on. It may be that this is a starting point, and you'll end up back working in conservation, but with a much broader understanding of the issues involved.

Have you spoken to your University careers advisors for an indepth interview with the appropriate person?

BTW - in my organisation, which is not unconnected with your field, we're finding that there are hundreds of applicants for unskilled jobs, and very few good applicants for skilled jobs needing specific qualifications. It may be that you're in a better place than you imagine.

under - I don't blame you for feeling resentful but you also mention that your self-esteem is really low. Perhaps a voluntary role will boost your confidence as well as giving your CV a boost. If you pick the right organisation, it could be really valuable experience.

Hope it works out.

BTW, if you live in or near London, Trees for Cities seem to be always looking for volunteer workers at quite important sounding posts - I somehow seem to have ended up on their mailing list.

Do you want to go into academia or just think you cant? Lots of us on here with academic careers (and regularly moaning about it )

Why is academia unsuitable for women? When I was at uni many of the staff were women.

I also don't understand why academia is unsuitable for women (I'm a female academic, btw).

Have you considered a different field of biology for the time being if you can't get a job in yours?

I did my Masters in ecology but there's not work to be had there so I'm currently working in virology. Not having been trained in virology doesn't appear to be holding me back at all.