to ask if dogs should be on a lead or not in public places?

[GospelTruth]

Following on from a recent thread about dogs snatching food & biting very young children in public places, should it be mandatory for all dogs to be on leads in public places, it's a yes from me. Who could argue otherwise?

OP YABVU.

A little quote here from the author of Marley and me:

"I have this theory, and writing the book sharpened it, that people can learn a lot from dogs. Lessons on how to lead happier, more fulfilling lives. Lessons for successful relationships. Think about it. Many of the qualities that come so effortlessly to dogs ? loyalty, devotion, selflessness, unflagging optimism, unqualified love ? can be elusive to humans. My hunch is that people who act more like dogs have happier marriages. That's assuming, of course, you don't marry someone who emulates cats. Then you're in trouble. Cats will outsmart dogs every time."

Lesley33, the difference between here and Germany is that when yobs start swearing, people round on them and tell them to shut the fuck up. There's more of a sense of collective responsibility lacking here in the UK.

FWIW, I keep my dog on a lead as she's an ove-friendly rescue dog who licks everything in sight. Training is ongoing

Yes when I have visited her I have been surprised in Germany that people do comment on other people's behaviour and tell them off. It seems to be very effective.

But unfortunately we don't have this culture any more in the UK - although it used to be like that here. So my point was only that what works in another country won't necessarily work in the UK.

I am a volunteer for Cinbammon Trust walking elderely and disabled people's dogs.

Every dog I have walked through the trust, has been docile and sometimes very timid. I either keep them on a lead or very close by as I worry about other aggressive dogs and I know it would break their owners hearts if their dog was hurt. In fact some owners won't let me take their dogs out if it is raining or cold!

If you're not confident that your dog will come back when you call - should be on a lead
By a road - should be on a lead
Near a children's play area - should be on a lead
but......
dogs need regular off-leash exercise even the small ones, it helps them burn of the energy and boredom that may make them aggressive. Unfortunately, unlike the states, we don't have the space needed for dedicated dog runs. I'm forever amazed at how little control some people have over their dogs however I'm also amazed at how many people will let their child run up to a strange dog (usually screaming and shouting about stroking the pretty doggy). I have a cavalier so you're probably pretty safe but how do you know? We have to share the few open spaces we have in the UK. So I'll make sure that my dog is well trained and obedient if you make sure that your children know not to approach strange dogs or at least how to approach strange dogs.

Lesley33, you're right, it probably wouldn't work unfortunately :(

You only have to read on here at the things people get offended about that strangers have said to them. Some of them are such non issues. I can imagine the reaction of some posters if we all started criticising people openly for poor public behaviour.

"Vallhala Why do you attack anyone who says they are frightgened of dogs?"

PMSL. That's bull, sorry.

I must remind the man in my life that I do this and ask him how he's managed to cope with my attacking attitude for the past 10 years.

He's scared of all dogs and is particularly petrified of German Shepherds, having been bitten by GSD when he was younger.

I have three large dogs. Two of these are German Shepherds. :o

I don't attack those who are scared of dogs, I just expect them to do as Himself does... which is not to expect the world to change because of his fears any more than I expect the Thames to be drained because of mine.

Those who dislike dogs are another matter though. They don't get through my front door. :i

The other thread was my thread and i think YABU.

I wouldn't want a dog myself but i can see why others do. I have no problem with dogs being off leads providing the owner is in, within reason, in control.

The dogs on my thread were clearly not trained and the owner was not in control. But that was just one case and i refuse to sweep all dog owners with same brush.

In all my life that is the first incident i have come across involving out of control dogs. The owner clearly didn't care and in this case, it showed more about the owner then the dogs.

You can't just say ban all dogs from being off leads, it's very unreasonable.

"Yes to leads on pavements/ near childrens play areas (but not the whole park) and anywhere that is say a designated picnic area. and some dog free beaches/ sections of beach."

That seems like a more sensible and balanced view.

What you have to remember is lots of people are frightened of lots of things but you can't go around baning everything because some people are scared.

I have a dog, she is on the lead in the high-street and by any roads, or anywhere where I get 'the vibe' she should be on a lead - sometimes if toddlers are around, sometimes if a dog I feel is in anyway a problem, if there are deer or picnicers, otherwise she's in the park and off the lead running free happy and not bothering anyone. I pick up her mess and ensure she's well behaved etc.

I have children and our dog's been brought up with children around her. My daughter and her friends paint her toe nails and get her in bed at sleepovers and she lets kids ride on her back and pull her ears, but I know shes an animal and all animals have their limits and so I keep an eye on the situation. I have trained the children as best I can to see any warning signs that she might show of stress.

Even the softest cutest family dog can bite a child - it happened to my in-laws when there 'butter wouldn't melt' utterly lovable retriever nipped my neice in the face one day because no-one had taken any notice of his signs of stress the odd growl of warning, and no-one took the proper notice. Luckily my niece was just grazed and not worried too much. But in amazes me how some adults have clearly made their children irrational around dogs. I understand this may be because of a bad experience etc but there is nothing that's going to encourage a dog to show too much interest than a squealing kid jumping around being hysterical (dogs like squealy fast moving prey - they think their rabbits etc).

As a 5 year old I was dragged around my home by a neighbours Labrador by the scruff of my neck around our 17 flats. I still loved the dog but I respected him more and stopped being quite so in his face - it didn't put me off dogs though, I just love them. So I guess I'm saying even in private spaces dog owners need to pay attention and keep their dogs under control as well as public spaces.

In Germany (as I've said in other similar posts) no dog is allowed off the lead in public places. There are special dog walking areas/parks and I don't see why this couldn't work in the UK.

OP - the dog owners on here will always tell you their dogs are really friendly, come back when called and won't hurt a child but in all honesty, no dog can be trusted fully and a dog can easily turn when scared or hungry etc.

If the owner can and does control the dog (will come when called) then I don't have a problem with dogs off leads.

If the owner allows the dog to jump and fuss with the excuse that 'it's being friendly' or 'it won't hurt' then I'd prefer it on a lead.

I've run today and come across an owner with a black lab, an alsatian and what looked like a rottie crossed with something else all off lead. They were beautifully behaved and a credit to him. The problem is that IME that is unusual.

thankyou vintageteacups for your post it's nice to hear from someone who understands.

Until you got to the second part of your last sentence, saggar, I thought you were speaking of me!

I have a black Lab and 2 German Shepherds although many would only recognise one as being such as the other is an unusual colour for the breed. Today I stopped and sat my three off lead boys for a jogger, who politely said hello and thanks, letting her past before I gave them the command to go again. It's just what you do, AFAIAC. Could've been me but that I'm not male and my second GSD doesn't look like a Rottie.

On the other side of the argument are the ignorant asses who see you calling your dog/leading him/getting him to sit and stay so they can pass without fear and who still look at you all as if you're shit on their shoes and fail to acknowledge your kindness with so much as a nod.

More often than not these aren't joggers, who are probably more likely to have dodgy experiences with off-lead dogs because they are fast-moving near dogs and their owners but parents with children. I often find them very rude.

I am a dog owner and walk my (beautifully behaved) dog off lead in the park every day BUT I agree that large areas of pubic parks should be DOGS ON LEADS, or even dog free, so that folk who don't like them (not everyone does), or are allergic to them, can picnic, walk, play ball, whatever without worrying. As long as there are still parts where dogs can run around freely then surely everyone can be happy?

Well done those Germans! Shame that in this country sentimentality about pets prevails over safety of children.

Sorry, the second part of your last paragraph, of course, saggar.

Yes - I'm always grateful for the owners that step aside and hold the dog by the collar until I've passed. And I always say thank you. Common courtesy isn't it.

^GospelTruth Sun 20-Feb-11 17:32:28
thankyou vintageteacups for your post it's nice to hear from someone who understands.^

Oh ffs Gospeltruth, 99% of people on here including dog owners have agreed that dogs should be on leads in closed areas IE street pavements/playgrounds etc. , but to say as you did that all dogs(you singled out rotties) should be muzzled is extreme and cruel and creates misguided myths about certain breeds.
We all know and have heard the horror stories of dogs that have hurt someone, mauled someone or killed someone..... rare, extreme cases but unfortunately it happens. HOWEVER we have also heard of how humans have hurt, mauled and in lots of cases killed someone , not so rare and not so extreme , would you suggest all humans be muzzled (actually i can think of a few that should be but that just MHO ).

totally agree with fit2drop

YABU

In Germany (as I've said in other similar posts) no dog is allowed off the lead in public places. There are special dog walking areas/parks and I don't see why this couldn't work in the UK

I'm very sorry Vintage, but you're talking rubbish here!! I live in Munich and am horrified EVERY DAY at the way the Germans walk their dogs along the side of busy roads, offlead! They carry the damn lead in their hand, but NEVER use it. I saw a dog run straight across a 4 lane road a couple of months ago, beside the Isar river - luckily it was Sunday morning and there were hardly any cars around. It had seen another dog on the other side of the road.

I own two (friendly) dogs and use my lead appropriately...

I do, however, get annoyed when peoples children, (of which I have two), hang off the dogs ears without asking!

OP you are being ignorant and VVU

P.S. My name does not apply to living in Munich - I love it here!

I agree with dazzlingdeborahrose. The people on here suggesting that all dogs should be on leads aren't taking into account their physical needs. Do you seriously think a Dalmation (bred to run alongside horse-drawn carriages), or an Alsatian, would be happy to run at the pace dictated by some human with a lead, and be happy and healthy? OK, it might work if they were owned by Dame Kelly Holmes, otherwise, I think not. They need a good run. And, is no dog ever allowed to chase a ball? Not easy on a lead.