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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To expect my chilminder to look after DS with cast on

45 replies

Joey09 · 19/02/2011 11:46

My 17 month old fractured his leg and has been in a cast for 3 weeks. My partner and I have taken time off to look after him on the two days he's normally with her. Now in the last week he's very mobile and we felt he'd be fine with childminder. She said ok but at the last minute changed her mind and said she didn't think she'd be able to cope and it wouldn't be fair on the two older children. I'm annoyed she's said this without even seeing DS to assess him. She started to talk about it not being covered in contract or insurance (injury not covered in contract and would be surprised if this situation specifically excl from insurance). Also why couldn't she do activities that would be ok for all of them, their days are often dictated by the pre school times of the other kids. If she'd assessed him then made the decision giving us time to tell work or organise alternative care I wouldn't be so annoyed.

OP posts:

MoonUnitAlpha · 19/02/2011 13:43

Don't see why it's political correctness onceamai

I don't she can just refuse to take him - she should certainly refund any money you've paid, and what about giving you notice that she's terminating the contract/refusing to provide care?

nannynick · 19/02/2011 14:34

There are two leading insurance providers for childminders in England. Neither to my knowledge places any conditions in the policy itself with regards to caring for a child in a plaster cast.

Risk assessments would be done as per usual, such as identifying potential risks to the child in the cast and to other children. That may mean some things get adapted a little bit to accommodate all the needs of the children.

I suspect this may be more down to it being Half Term next week for many schools... is it half term where you are next week? Is it next week (21-25 Feb) that is the period of time you are talking about?

Having a cast on is just added hassle... though could be argued as being less hassle as the child may be less mobile than they were without the cast!

The issue of payment falls down to the terms of the contract. Though I agree with Katymac, seems unreasonable for the childminder to charge given it is her deciding not to accept your child.

castleonthehill · 19/02/2011 18:07

My dd went to pre school with a cased on. She wasn't in any pain she was able to weight bear (walk on it) she could sit down and stand up and climb in her carseat.

Not sure how much of the above your ds can do.

My dd was 3 and as I have arthritis I can't carry her so I took the buggy in with me to a and he from the car as I new what ever was wrong when she was tired she wouldn't walk on it.

I can remember having to move her seat into the front and then asked a passer by to lift her in. The next day I worked out how to get her in then she was able to get herself in.

All pre school had to do was give her move room to sit a story time.

pearlym · 19/02/2011 18:55

Sounds as though childminder can't be bothered wiht the possible hassle, very bad show to let you down like that, she should refund you
I hate it when people say"it's the insurance or it's health and safety" when in fact they do not know that, they just do not want ot think otside the box and provide a proper service to you, their paying customer!

reallytired · 19/02/2011 20:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

justcarrots29 · 19/02/2011 20:36

Baby farmer??? Wow .
I am not sure Ofsted will be interested as they tend to only investigate issues surrounding Safeguarding and as she is refusing to have your child she cannot be putting his health in danger. I can understand her reluctance. At 17 months it is possible he may further injure himself whilst in her care. This is essentially a contractual dispute, something Ofsted does not investigate.
However, I do think it is unreasonable to charge you full price if she is unwilling to care for your son. I would get a confirmation from the gp that he will be fit to go to childcare and then ask her again about fees. If she does not back down give notice asap. Goodluck

justcarrots29 · 19/02/2011 20:37

By the way REALLYTIRED - she cannot 'sack' the 'baby farmer' - she is not her employer. The childminder is self-employed.

BlueCat2010 · 19/02/2011 20:39

When DS was in a cast the childcare centre had no problems in taking him - I was the one who thought it wasn't possible and they suggested he came in!

Tanith · 19/02/2011 20:58

A "baby farmer" was a Victorian woman who very often neglected, starved or killed the children in her care. The children would stay with her for months at a time. Amelia Dyer is one of the most notorious.

Reallytired, surely you can make your point without being so grossly and deliberately offensive?

justcarrots29 · 19/02/2011 21:08

I got a bit angry actually- I have read a little about Amelia Dyer. I am a childminder - to be referred to as a baby farmer was shocking.

Hopefully ReallyTired didn't really understand the comment she made

I sympathise with the OP thought, I would accept her child with extra risk assessments in place because I believe in working with parents as far as possible.

curlymama · 19/02/2011 21:17

I would contact OFSTED about this. Make an official complaint about her if needs be. I thought CM's had to work within the same guidelines as pre schools and nurseries, and neither of those would be able to exclude a child for any medical condition, including wearing a cast. They would be expected to make reasonable adjustments so that they can accomodate the child's needs.

She is being very unreasonable, and should definately not be paid for the time that she chooses not to have your child. Although she should be paid for the days that you chose to take off to look after him.

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that she simply can't be bothered with the extra hassle, and it sounds like that's what's going on here, especially as you say she hasn't even seen him. She doesn't sound like someone I would be happy to have looking after my dc.

curlymama · 19/02/2011 21:20

Also meant to say, you should ask her to show you a copy of her policies. She should have some that cover this. Don't give her time to sort them out, turn up to ask for them unexpectedly during the time that she expects you to pay her for, and demand to see them there and then. You are well within your rights to do that, and you would be able to see if she has thought about situations like this at all.

purepurple · 20/02/2011 08:34

justcarrots, I think you underestimate Ofsted. They are not just interested in safeguarding. Every provider delivering the EYFS has legal responsibilities to deliver the whole of it. It's a legal requirement to practice inclusion. I am sure Ofsted would be very interested to hear about this childminder.
The EYFS states "The policy on equality of opportunities should include:

* information about how the individual needs of all children will be met;
* information about how all children, including those who are disabled or have special educational needs, will be included, valued and supported, and how reasonable adjustments will be made for them;
* a commitment to working with parents and other agencies;
* information about how the SEN Code of Practice is put into practice in the provision (where appropriate);
* the name of the Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator (in group provision);
* arrangements for reviewing, monitoring and evaluating the effectiveness of inclusive practices;
* information about how the provision will promote and value diversity and differences;
* information about how inappropriate attitudes and practices will be challenged;
* information about how the provision will encourage children to value and respect others."

Here is the link
Under the Equality Act people can be indirectly affected by discrimination, such as parents not being able to go to work because the childminder refuses to care for a child because of his additional needs.
This childminder is on very shaky ground.

justcarrots29 · 20/02/2011 09:28

I know all this purple - I think the main problem lies in the fact that she is charging and not providing the service. However, it is her choice to exclude for a TEMPORY injury as she may not feel comfortable in meeting the extra needs of the child. If this is the case then it is better that she does not accept the child. I think the child minder is being unreasonable as it should not be difficult to put in place some extra safety measures.

That said, of course if the op feels she wants to make a report to Ofsted then that is what she must do, IF her childminder is unwilling to work with her to reach a mutually acceptable outcome.

not1not2 · 21/02/2011 12:21

Tha answer is in the OP post of 1300 yes?

You said he's leaving her soon does she know that? My guess is she simply can't be bothered

However it is absolutely clear that since she is self employed you do not pay if she will not/does not provide her service. If you kept him off because you wanted to then you pay from the moment she said no you don't, maybe some of the childminders on here will advise you how to go about this?

alibubbles · 21/02/2011 17:41

I have had two toddlers with arm casts and a 10 month old in a frog plaster for 4 months for hip dysplasia, not a problem at all!

Original poster

Joey09 · 24/02/2011 21:58

Thank you so much for all your comments. I contacted her childminder association who agreed with most of you that withdrawing her services in this way is not covered by her contract and she should therefore refund me. They said a child minder does have the right to decline care for a child if the withdrawal of care is within the terms of the contract and in that the implementation of that contract is reasonable to all parties. They agreed that the notice given was not reasonable and the reasons were unsubstantiated. Unfortunately the childminder refuses to accept this so I've asked Ofsted to take it up which they are doing. Will let you know outcome. Joey09 x

OP posts:

reallytired · 25/02/2011 13:13

I am glad that you have stood up to your childminder and reported her to OFSTED.

I think you have a strong case to sue her through the small claims court for a refund, compensation for the inconvience (ie. if you had to take time off, time in finding new childcare) and injury to feeling.

ilovecrisps · 26/02/2011 13:57

well done

you really should persue her for the money you know (but I agree it can be time consuming and potentially upsetting)

Mum2Luke · 26/02/2011 15:59

I think I would have minded the toddler, at 17 mths, he could have gone in the pushchair to the park/activities and at that age they aren't really bothered, he might get a bit frustrated but it wouldn't be on long anyway, about 5-6 weeks maybe?

The childminder should NOT charge you if she is not providing service, that is dishonest of her.

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