to think it's flippin' obvious that incapacity begins with a sicknote?

[AgeingGrace]

Our Beloved Premier/s has/have announced that, since half of all long-term sickness benefit claims begin with sick leave from work, the nation must be malingering.

Mr Cameron will say: "We simply have to get to grips with the sicknote culture that means a short spell of sickness can far too easily become a gradual slide to a life of long-term benefit dependency."

Don't they have any statisticians in Whitehall these days? The figures used do NOT show that half of everyone who goes sick from work, they show that half of the prople on sick benefit were in work when they first got ill. I'm surprised it's not higher than that - how did the other half know they were too sick to work, if they weren't already working? That's the half he should be worried about!

Dave: When working people become ill, they have to get a sick note. If their illness turns out to be serious, they have to leave their job and eventually claim benefits. If it doesn't, they go back to work. Which part of that do you see as a problem?

thisis - unemployment is very different to disability. willing workers who can't find jobs vs. at least some people who don't want to work. I am not saying everyone on disability falls into that category, by any means, though 1 pct claims not being genuine sounds statistically impossible.

Don't understand you, chandellina, are you saying disability = people who don't want to work?

And why would 1 % fraud be statistically impossible?

Interesting indeed
No.10 must have had a bullshit review, determining which bullshit will go down better in the mid-stream press. Oh, hang on, that'll be why statements are now released to the press the day before?

I've been trying to refrain from posting "My Story" because a sample of one is inconsequential. But this net benefit recipient thing has really got to me!
I got sick ten years ago. My salary at that time was £60k. I received a statement at that time, which told me I'd paid over a quarter of a million in tax & NI contributions. I had insurance, so claimed no benefits for 18 months after which the insurances stopped paying. I had to let my lovely flat go and start renting. Over the ten years, I've received approx £50,000 worth of benefits. For this I am extremely grateful. But I'm a long way off 'net receipts'. Apart from my above-average salary last time I earned one, my story ain't that unusual.

I never resented a penny of the money I paid to social funds. I've lived in countries where the poor, the mad, the injured and the sick sleep in doorways alongside their children and grandparents. My contributions were personal insurance, yes: against having to live in that kind of country.

I do, however, resent the thousands I paid to private insurance companies which did everything possible to ditch me as soon as I needed to claim. They made sure they were net recipients.

Chandellina the Government stat on DLA (different from incapaciry benefit whcih WAS easier to get than the new ESA) is actually lower than 1%.

They estimate an underclaim of 40%.

They want it to be cut by 20%.

I am talking teh disabled here as well: not anything else, the people being denied access to funding through ESa assessment are people with autism for example.

The ATOS decisions on 70% of claims were overturned at appeal when the appellant had representation;
the response to that was not to tell ATOS to up their game (appeals cost a lot) but to cancel legal aid for people contesting claims.

Of course there should be assessments for DLA whenever there is an absence of papertrail; but it should be trained professionals, ATOS staff are not.

nobody is immune from disability and sickness, and very few people actually realise how much it costs- care packages topping £2k a week, childcare for disabled children costing significant % more than for those who are NT if- and it's a big if- you can find any. Plenty of people who think they would just cope cannot.

I work in Carer's Support and ASD; people are scared and there is talk online of suicides related to ATOS. I am not wet, i recognise theire is fraud and tehre are groups I have no time for whatsoever such as fathers who do not pay anything to their child- I don't care if you are on benefits or a student you damned well pay something.

But disabled peole have no options, DLA is not related to work anyway, and a significant proportion of us now will need help from it at some time.

"get real, who doesn't know someone supposedly unable to work who obviously could?"

Well, me for one. Have been sitting here reviewing the people I know who are/have been on disability/sickness benefit: some of them have died from their illness and the rest are quite definitely genuinely disabled or seriously ill.

fwiw I am a working taxpayer who does not claim any disability or carer's benefits despite the fact that I have two disabled children.

Absolutely Cory.

I have ahd my doubts about one person ever- to put that is perspective I worked supporting people with challenging family circs and met very many claimants indeed.

We do claim 2 X DLA and CA but we also both work and we both study and volunteer: we contribute to this world too.

ThisIsANiceCage: the Indie did not say it was an official press release, and no other papers ran it; this strongly suggests they had a leak; and that the source of their leak was not well placed because the information was inaccurate.

Ah, yes could be - a leaked draft, perhaps.

TIANC: I don't suppose we'll ever know!

Interesting that the Opposition's response appears to be focussed on the difficulties in moving from out-of-work benefits given the current unemployment levels, not on any of the other issues.